Bank robbery in Gulf Shores

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Brentorious

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Alabama Credit Union robbed in Gulf Shores. Orange Beach officers are assisting, but cannot talk to Gulf Shores because GS is encrypted. Air assets have been requested, possibly from U.S. Customs.
 

garys

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Kind of blows up that whole interoperability thing, doesn't it?
 

RevGary

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Follow-up:

The chopper that was hovering over the east end of WalMart just off Highway 59 and Highway 180 was on station for nearly 45 minutes with the mega spotlight illuminating the weeds near 15th. Ave. and Second Street. Might have been US Customs, but ID from my distance to the helo was too far to make out the logo.

Yeah - once again, the new and improved radio systems failed miserably for mutual aid coordination. I can only imagine the frustration on the ground while time delays were stacking up from dispatch center to dispatch center and message relays to units 2 blocks apart that could not speak with each other. Why didn't they leave a VHF radio in ALL the cruisers in Baldwin County with 155.010 State Mutual Aid available?
 

garys

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Or, why don't they utilize the analog 7TACxxx channels that every trunk system is supposed to have to avoid just this sort of interoperability problem?

All this money, much of it federal, is being poured in to high tech systems across the country. The key to getting federal grants is stressing interoperability.

Someone did a miserable job planning, or more likely didn't do any job of planning.

Follow-up:

The chopper that was hovering over the east end of WalMart just off Highway 59 and Highway 180 was on station for nearly 45 minutes with the mega spotlight illuminating the weeds near 15th. Ave. and Second Street. Might have been US Customs, but ID from my distance to the helo was too far to make out the logo.

Yeah - once again, the new and improved radio systems failed miserably for mutual aid coordination. I can only imagine the frustration on the ground while time delays were stacking up from dispatch center to dispatch center and message relays to units 2 blocks apart that could not speak with each other. Why didn't they leave a VHF radio in ALL the cruisers in Baldwin County with 155.010 State Mutual Aid available?
 

KI4VBR

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Planning.....

Or, why don't they utilize the analog 7TACxxx channels that every trunk system is supposed to have to avoid just this sort of interoperability problem?

All this money, much of it federal, is being poured in to high tech systems across the country. The key to getting federal grants is stressing interoperability.

Someone did a miserable job planning, or more likely didn't do any job of planning.

The planning was done by the Motorola or Harris sales teams. They did a great job of selling the decision makers and probably contributed to some sort of "special fund" for those important folk. Truly, it seems the only people winning here are the radio vendors. The key here is that they write their contracts so well, complete failure of the radio is probably barely covered under warranty.

Vince
 

Brentorious

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One of the OB officers was clearly frustrated, at one point saying, "I'm flying blind out here."

I think there is also the issue of everyone wanting to play in their own sandbox exclusively. Even though it's a shared system, they can all still carve out their own area and refuse to cooperate.

Gulf Shores and Orange Beach share an island and they can't/don't talk to one another. It's in everyone's best interests for them to do so, and not just during a bank robbery. I've only been monitoring this for 6 weeks or so, and I have already seen several instances of more routine matters where instant communication would have helped.
 

garys

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This is most unfortunate as it should work the other way around. It's probably more common than not as system owners don't want to pay to hire consultants or system integrators and prefer to make complex decisions on their own. Even if they aren't qualified to do so.

I'm really fortunate to live and have worked in an area where the interoperability is well developed with the process going back to the early 1970s. Not much is really done right up here, but this works really well.

When I was working in EMS, I could go anywhere in the greater Boston area and have a channel to talk to someone on. Actually, I could go anywhere in the state and be able to talk to someone on the radio. Which is supposed to be the reason for this mega statewide trunk systems that a lot of people are in love with right now.

Maybe I can get Baldwin County to hire me as a consultant. I'd work cheap and if nothing else, I probably can't make it any worse. :p

The planning was done by the Motorola or Harris sales teams. They did a great job of selling the decision makers and probably contributed to some sort of "special fund" for those important folk. Truly, it seems the only people winning here are the radio vendors. The key here is that they write their contracts so well, complete failure of the radio is probably barely covered under warranty.

Vince
 

KI4VBR

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The Magic Word Today Is "CONSULTANT"

Maybe I can get Baldwin County to hire me as a consultant. I'd work cheap and if nothing else, I probably can't make it any worse. :p

That is exactly what they need to have in place.....a neutral, 3rd party consultant who does not care about a particular vendor, but focuses on the important issues like interop, reliability & voice quality.

I have made my living as a consultant in the areas of I.T. and data communications for almost 30 years. I have no ties to one particular vendor. I spend the requisite time assessing the client's goals, needs and current problems, then apply the correct technology to those needs.

Pretty simple eh? Gary, maybe you will get a call out of the blue from someone at Baldwin County who saw this thread and decided it makes sense to hire you (or someone like you) as a consultant before any contracts are signed. But what about the mayor's cousin's son, next-door-neighbor kid who tinkers with computers & radios, but can't spell TDMA? You know where this is going....LOL.

I think you are spot-on Gary.

Best regards, --... ...--
Vince
 

slimbob

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That is exactly what they need to have in place.....a neutral, 3rd party consultant who does not care about a particular vendor, but focuses on the important issues like interop, reliability & voice quality.

That is true of any shared system, on any level of government.

Shared systems are a hard sell to begin with, because one user or another will demand priority over other users. The minute that all of those users are law enforcement, they realize that concessions have to be made, and that priority isn't necessary since everyone is the same until the emergency button is pressed on the radio. Of course, the flipside to the argument is ... why should I pay for access to this system when I have my own system where I have immediate priority over anyone -- without doing anything special?

It has to be looked at as a service, and the service has to be excellent. But you still have to have statistics and cover territory well. Simulcast should be avoided if possible. If more calls are generated in a given area, that area needs to be re-engineered. The system also needs to have enough capacity to deal with a "Perfect Storm" series of disasters suddenly causing a collection of radio traffic at one or more locations. The system also needs to be distributed, as well as somewhat fault tolerant.

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes an act of the legislature to get something done, and Alabama has a rich history of paying someone else to do what the state can do itself for the same price, provided they have an engineer or two who is actually qualified to do his job. But it is more profitable for a third party to use an existing infrastructure, i.e.: Southern Linc, than deploy a ground-up multi-user trunking system that will support DPS, DOC, and other state agencies. And after all, every single phone line and long distance circuit is a percentage somewhere in a salesman's paycheck.

The state would do better to build it's own microwave network, but then the state would have to find a way to bill for it, maintain it, and respond whenever a natural disaster takes out a node. In a microwave network, that is a large list of demands. Particularly when you consider that anything the state does, it does as cheaply as possible. In other words, Georgia could pull this off, but Alabama never will unless there is a miracle.
 

Ensnared

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Nice Place To Visit

Yes, last August, I visited Orange Beach & Ono Island. I was surprised to find that Orange Beach was in the clear while Gulf Shores was not. I wonder why these two agencies don't have a common goal, catching crooks.

I feel for those who live in that area because the scanner traffic was rather boring. Furthermore, the Florida side had a noticeable amount of encryption going as well.

When I sit back & watch the "three-legged donkey walking across a burning tightrope" scenario play out across this country, interoperability, I have very mixed feelings between disgust, humor, & anger.

Hopefully, Orange Beach will continue with their open channel & Gulf Shores will come to their senses. We all lose when crooks win, even for a short while.

Mobile is rather difficult to monitor as well. I don't know where the Mobile Police are hiding on the radio. I tried & never heard them. At first, I thought they would be joining the 1st Responder's network. I don't visit that area very often.
 
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garys

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I keep telling my son that he should run for county commissioner or whatever they have in Baldwin County. Alas, he is way to smart for that.

I actually have some experience in this having been on the CAD selection committee for the City of Boston CAD system.

Keep in mind that you are probably qualified as modern radio systems are more IT systems with a RF component than radio systems. All of the backbone is IT and IP based.

I really do hope they get it straightened out because I have family that I care very much about down there.

Pretty simple eh? Gary, maybe you will get a call out of the blue from someone at Baldwin County who saw this thread and decided it makes sense to hire you (or someone like you) as a consultant before any contracts are signed. But what about the mayor's cousin's son, next-door-neighbor kid who tinkers with computers & radios, but can't spell TDMA? You know where this is going....LOL.

I think you are spot-on Gary.

Best regards, --... ...--
Vince
 

garys

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Y
Mobile is rather difficult to monitor as well. I don't know where the Mobile Police are hiding on the radio. I tried & never heard them. At first, I thought they would be joining the 1st Responder's network. I don't visit that area very often.

They are hiding temporarily on Pro Voice on the county system. Once their new P25 system is built, they will move there. Sadly, word is that it will be encrypted.
 
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