Bay Minette, Daphne, Foley, Robertsdale System

[sadave]

Think you might still have Channel and Talk Group confused. Channel is part of the Site information, while TGs go into the Department section.

If you're still using the menu system for programming, which I think you are, do this,

MENU->MANAGE FAVORITES (Select the Favorites List you are using)REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM-(Select the System you want to edit)EDIT SITE (Select the Site you want to Edit)->SET FREQUENCIES (either enter a frequency or select one)-> ENTER.

When you press ENTER the next screen will be Input LCN. LCN is the Channel number. For 453.075, the LCN (Channel) is 58. Do that for all of the sites and frequencies for the system and see how that works.

The Fairhope site is no longer active, but both Daphne sites, Foley, and the others are. Last I knew, Daphne PD and FD were in the clear. I think that Fire/EMS dispatch TGs from the 700Mhz system are simulcast on this system. I can check my notes, if you want, to see what I had for active TGs. The information is from late 2016, but except for Foley being encrypted, I don't think much has changed.

The mystery has been solved for the LCN. Here's what happened when I was originally programming the frequencies...

I got to the screen to enter the frequency; i.e., Set Frequencies > New Frequency > Input Frequency (MHz) > Enter > Input LCN (Since I didn't know this, I simply hit Enter again which took me back to the entered frequency. And, since I didn't know about RAN, I skipped Set RAN/Area.)

Now, to go about adding the LCN to all those frequencies...

Here's a tip for users to add or edit an LCN. The LCN screen does not appear in a menu selection but rather is a following screen after inputting a frequency. From the Input Frequency screen (add, edit, or do nothing to the frequency), hit Enter and you'll be taken to the LCN screen.

And just like that, within ten minutes, I heard Daphne FD and Robertsdale PD. Thank you very much for your assistance and patience.

Shep

 

[garys]

You're welcome, I'm glad you got it going. The menu system takes some getting used to and is not very easy to use for programming. I figured it out by trial and error when the first version of the NXDN firmware came out. It's a lot easier with ARC536, and I expect Sentinel will be easier as well.

Let us know how it works once you get everything entered.

The mystery has been solved for the LCN. Here's what happened when I was originally programming the frequencies...

I got to the screen to enter the frequency; i.e., Set Frequencies > New Frequency > Input Frequency (MHz) > Enter > Input LCN (Since I didn't know this, I simply hit Enter again which took me back to the entered frequency. And, since I didn't know about RAN, I skipped Set RAN/Area.)

Now, to go about adding the LCN to all those frequencies...

Here's a tip for users to add or edit an LCN. The LCN screen does not appear in a menu selection but rather is a following screen after inputting a frequency. From the Input Frequency screen (add, edit, or do nothing to the frequency), hit Enter and you'll be taken to the LCN screen.

And just like that, within ten minutes, I heard Daphne FD and Robertsdale PD. Thank you very much for your assistance and patience.

Shep

 

[sadave]

With ID scanning activated, I have been surprised to hear more than just those Talkgroups listed on the RRDB for this system.

TG 109 is Bay Minette PD (DB update has been submitted)
TG 1876 is a medical helicopter talking with its base. (I'll submit for a DB update when better identified)

 

[garys]

Good work. From my last trip down there, this is what I have. Some of it is in the RRDB, but some isn't.

From what I remember, all sites carry all of the traffic, so you only need to put in the one closest to you. Unless you're doing this mobile, then you might want to put all of them in.

I think the Spanish Fort site had the best coverage, but that was likely just based on where I was.


TG User
101 Bay Minette Fire
109 Unknown
118 Baldwin Fire North Dispatch
142 Unknown
251 Daphne Police
253 Daphne Police Records
260 Unknown
276 Daphne Fire
351 Robertsdale Police
501 Foley Fire Dispatch
1176 Baldwin Sheriff Central
1617 Baldwin Fire Dispatch South
1401 Baldwin Sheriff InterOp

With ID scanning activated, I have been surprised to hear more than just those Talkgroups listed on the RRDB for this system.

TG 109 is Bay Minette PD (DB update has been submitted)
TG 1876 is a medical helicopter talking with its base. (I'll submit for a DB update when better identified)

 

[TomServo]

From what I remember, all sites carry all of the traffic, so you only need to put in the one closest to you. Unless you're doing this mobile, then you might want to put all of them in.

The only site I can hear reliably (I don't have a dedicated UHF/VHF antenna, just a HF antenna doing double-duty) is Foley and I rarely hear anything other than "adjacent" cities. Summerdale, occasionally Fairhope, maybe once I heard Daphne. But never Robertsdale or Bay Minette. Is it just that they're not very active, or could there be some sort of segmentation that keeps distant stuff off local tower unless a TG's radio is close enough to use it?

All this talk makes me wish I had the money for a real scanner with NXDN capability instead of my gimpy SDR setup that can't scan. That and DSD+ not decoding P-25 Phase II are eating at me. I wanna hear everything that isn't encrypted, ha ha.

 

[garys]

Ahh. If I'd known that you were doing SDR and not a scanner, I could have been more helpful. I have DSD+ frequency and group files I could have sent you.

I don't what of Fairhope might be on the NXDN system. Police moved to the 700 trunk (encrypted, of course) and I don't know that the FD or public works were ever on it.

A better antenna would help, but even with a mag mount in the hotel connected to my portable (such as it is) SDR/DSD+ set up, I could get most of the trunk sites.

It's possible that some sites only carry traffic if a subscriber radio has affiliated with that site, but I seem to recall being told that all sites carry all talk groups. I know that the 700 system only carries traffic for affiliated subscriber units. Which made it a PITA to try to monitor.

Fairhope used to use a nice LTR trunk, but they moved to NXDN then the 700 system.

It's still sort of a mess down there with most of the county on Phase 2, but as I recall Orange Beach and Gulf Shores were Phase 1 and Gulf Shores was encrypted. They wouldn't share their encryption keys, so unless they went on an Interop TG, no one could really assist them on pursuits.

I also remember that some of the cities were upset that the Sheriff wanted to increase their yearly fees due to increased maintenance.

It seems like a very disjointed system, if you can even call it a system.

The only site I can hear reliably (I don't have a dedicated UHF/VHF antenna, just a HF antenna doing double-duty) is Foley and I rarely hear anything other than "adjacent" cities. Summerdale, occasionally Fairhope, maybe once I heard Daphne. But never Robertsdale or Bay Minette. Is it just that they're not very active, or could there be some sort of segmentation that keeps distant stuff off local tower unless a TG's radio is close enough to use it?

All this talk makes me wish I had the money for a real scanner with NXDN capability instead of my gimpy SDR setup that can't scan. That and DSD+ not decoding P-25 Phase II are eating at me. I wanna hear everything that isn't encrypted, ha ha.

 

[TomServo]

garys, that's very kind of you re: the group files. My setup, as I said, is kind of gimpy. I have the SDRplay RSP-1 radio so the other part of that DSD package that is supposed to control the radio doesn't seem to work with it. I just open four virtual receivers in SDRuno and have them all squelched, feeding raw audio to DSD. So as long as only one channel is active, it works good. But of course when it gets busy, I have to be quick to mute channels or it all goes awry!

If any of my DSDplus.xxxx files might be of use in filling out information, I'd be happy to send them along or post them here or whatever. I don't use it a whole lot the .radios file seems to have quite a bit of content. It's 34 kB I believe.

 

[sadave]

I was fortunate to have invested in the BCD436HP in 2014 and have been impressed by Uniden's efforts over the years to expand its versatility by adding options for ProVoice, DMR, and now, NXDN. Many folks have fussed that all of it should have been free and/or already included (and I understand their view) but to upgrade to NXDN cost me only $30 whereas a new scanner would have cost hundreds. The exercise over the past couple of days working with garys to iron out all the kinks has been a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to contributing to this group and the RRDB what I find.

 

[garys]

PM me with an email address and I'll send them along.

Also, I've stopped using anything but FMP24 for frequency generation. I used to use SDR#, but haven't run that for well over a year. Once you get FMP24 running, you don't need any virtual cable set up to connect to DSD+.

As I said, I don't expect to be back in Baldwin County in the foreseeable future. I loved the area, but as my son and his family relocated to SC, there isn't any real reason for me to go there.

garys, that's very kind of you re: the group files. My setup, as I said, is kind of gimpy. I have the SDRplay RSP-1 radio so the other part of that DSD package that is supposed to control the radio doesn't seem to work with it. I just open four virtual receivers in SDRuno and have them all squelched, feeding raw audio to DSD. So as long as only one channel is active, it works good. But of course when it gets busy, I have to be quick to mute channels or it all goes awry!

If any of my DSDplus.xxxx files might be of use in filling out information, I'd be happy to send them along or post them here or whatever. I don't use it a whole lot the .radios file seems to have quite a bit of content. It's 34 kB I believe.

 

[garys]

I snapped up the DMR upgrade at the pre intro price and did the same with the NXDN upgrade. Since I use ARC536 and it was updated for both pretty quickly it wasn't a problem.

The 436 and 536 were good to start, but have just got better as time has gone on.

I'm glad you got it working. It's not difficult, it's just different. A lot of people didn't understand the concept of Channel Numbers for NXDN being different than Channel Numbers for DMR. It helps to have hung out in the Software Defined Radio and Voice/Control Channel forums. There's a lot of good information over there.

I was fortunate to have invested in the BCD436HP in 2014 and have been impressed by Uniden's efforts over the years to expand its versatility by adding options for ProVoice, DMR, and now, NXDN. Many folks have fussed that all of it should have been free and/or already included (and I understand their view) but to upgrade to NXDN cost me only $30 whereas a new scanner would have cost hundreds. The exercise over the past couple of days working with garys to iron out all the kinks has been a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to contributing to this group and the RRDB what I find.

 

[sadave]

With Hangout Fest in full bloom and ID Search turned on, a few TGs have popped up:

1403 Baldwin Co SO Hangout Fest Interop Interop (Quick Reaction Force, Strike Force, parking, traffic, gates)
1408 FireCom Control Hangout Fest EMS EMS Dispatch (Medics dispatched to various venues)

Unrelated to Hangout Fest, I picked up another regular TG:

1616 Baldwin Central Fire Dispatch East Fire Dispatch

And, over on the Alabama First Responder Network, here are another couple of TGs:

20001 Baldwin County SO (unencrypted)
27993 Special Events Interop Hangout Fest (gates and tickets)

All of the labeling and designations above are my own for programming purposes and have not been submitted to RRDB until more information is known.

 

[ilken]

BCSO have been notified that their TAC channels have been published/compromised.

 

[TomServo]

BCSO have been notified that their TAC channels have been published/compromised.

Compromised? That makes it sound like people are spying on them.

 

[sadave]

Here's a little something I found on this system and I think it may be supported across any NXDN system.

With the BCD436HP Firmware Update 1.15.00 (as of 04/20/2018), a feature of NXDN support includes Over the Air Alias. With ID Searching set to "on," I found Over the Air Alias shows not just the unit ID but, in some cases, also the alias. For example, a recent dispatch call from Baldwin Central on Fire Dispatch - North for an EMS unit and Bay Minette FD showed not only the Talkgroup (118) but also the alias "BALD 911."

I wonder if we should be submitting the alias to the folks at RR to use instead of what is being noted in the Alpha Tag column.

 

[sadave]

All,

While doing a little more experimenting, I tried the LCN Finder function of my BCD436HP. Instructions on how to effectively use it were pretty thin but I eventually figured it out (there are several threads out there so I won't go into the details here.)

What I did find which was relevant for this group was that one of the LCNs on the Foley site did not match up with the Site Frequency Table at Foley Site Details (Bay Minette, Daphne, Foley, Robertsdale).

Using the LCN Finder, the CH ID for 460.4125 was "5" rather than "268" as listed on the RR page. I'll run the LCN Finder a couple more times to confirm but since this was the only single digit CH ID on the system I thought it a bit odd. The remaining three frequencies on the Foley site matched with the listed CH IDs.

 

[garys]

I think that 5 is incorrect. The only time I've seen a single digit channel number like that is was a VHF custom NXDN trunk. Of course, this system also seems to have some custom channels as using the standard formula the Channel # for 460.4125 should be 434.

I think that LCN finder might not work correctly with a custom channel plan.

All,

While doing a little more experimenting, I tried the LCN Finder function of my BCD436HP. Instructions on how to effectively use it were pretty thin but I eventually figured it out (there are several threads out there so I won't go into the details here.)

What I did find which was relevant for this group was that one of the LCNs on the Foley site did not match up with the Site Frequency Table at Foley Site Details (Bay Minette, Daphne, Foley, Robertsdale).

Using the LCN Finder, the CH ID for 460.4125 was "5" rather than "268" as listed on the RR page. I'll run the LCN Finder a couple more times to confirm but since this was the only single digit CH ID on the system I thought it a bit odd. The remaining three frequencies on the Foley site matched with the listed CH IDs.

 

[sadave]

You're helping me learn as I go. Two questions.

How did you determine the Channel # for 460.4125 should be 434?

And, where did 268 come from on the RR table for the Foley site?

Also, the LCN Finder just finished its second run on the Foley site and again returned with "5" for 460.4125. The other frequencies still matched the RR page. I'll try running some of the other sites for any anomalies.

 

[garys]

I used a spread sheet that someone posted to RR to come up with 434.

Since it's a 46x.xxxx frequency, but the formula it should be above 400.

268 came from me or someone else listening using SDR dongles and DSD+. In my case, I found most of the channel numbers by trial and error using the frequency information here at RR. I also exchanged PMs with a couple of members who live in the area. They gave me valuable information on Channel and Talk Group numbers. Of course, since NXDN allows Alias use, that helps a lot as well.

You're helping me learn as I go. Two questions.

How did you determine the Channel # for 460.4125 should be 434?

And, where did 268 come from on the RR table for the Foley site?

Also, the LCN Finder just finished its second run on the Foley site and again returned with "5" for 460.4125. The other frequencies still matched the RR page. I'll try running some of the other sites for any anomalies.

 

[sadave]

Ah, very good. Thanks. So in addition to tinkering with the LCN Finder, is there a benefit to seeking out new frequencies on a given site or are those pretty well established? I suppose I could use Close Call or Discovery to set up some searches anything new.

 

[garys]

The frequencies have been known for quite some time. The problem was that before DSD+ came along, there was no way to track the system. Once that became available, it was fairly straightforward (not to say easy) to determine the channel numbering.

Ah, very good. Thanks. So in addition to tinkering with the LCN Finder, is there a benefit to seeking out new frequencies on a given site or are those pretty well established? I suppose I could use Close Call or Discovery to set up some searches anything new.