BCD436HP - Programming hierarchy

[douglasphansen]

Hello all!

Just upgraded to a BCD436HP after having the BCD396XT for years. Noticeable improvement in reception for my local area which was a huge plus. Running into a snag understanding the quick keys for Favorites List, System, Dept.

Below is my current hierarchy:

FL 00: Dutchess County
Sys 00: Duchess County
Dept 00: 911/Law dispatch

FL 01: East Fishkill PD
Sys 00: East Fishkill PD
Dept 00: EFPD

FL 02: Municipalities
Sys 00: All Municipalities
Dept 00: Beacon PD
Dept 01: Fishkill PD
Dept 02: City of Poughkeepsie
Dept 03: Town of Poughkeepsie

My questions:
1. Would you recommend a different configuration? Would it make more sense to condense all of the systems into 1 favorites list?
2. How the heck do you toggle systems and departments on and off? The only thing I've figured out how to toggle is a favorites list.

My BCD396XT was simple:
Had several systems with multiple departments built in. Toggling was easy. Press the quick key to turn a system on or off. Press Function to toggle the departments on or off. Having trouble understanding how to do the same thing on the new unit.

For reference, I'm in Duchess County, NY.

Thank you all for your time and patience!


- Doug

 

[sparker1962]

I'm in the same situation. Just got my BCD436HP after using the 396XT. The manual has the steps to switch them off and on but the problem I find is there is no easy way to visibly see which departments are enabled or disabled

It would be nice if there was a line of departments under the line of available favorites and Systems that showed which departments where enabled and disabled.

 

[troymail]

I can't see those tiny text lines anyway....

What I do (if using quick keys) for all of my radios now is add prefixes to the scanlists, favorites list names, systems, departments, sites, etc....

F1 Road Trip

S6 VIPER

d2 Fire/EMS

s4 Supply

If you do some planning, you an reuse QK numbers for common things:

d1 Fire/EMS
d2 Law
d3 Public Works
d4 Interop

etc.

Just make sure you keep your QKs separate/non-overlapping for departments and sites. I usually will start my site QKs at 0 or 1 and department QKs at 50 and up

 

[jonwienke]

With Location Control, there isn't much need to number tag each Department or site in a Favorite List. With lots of systems, it becomes very difficult to remember which number goes with which Department, and it's easy to accidentally turn something off unintentionally with no visible indication you've done so, and then you're wondering why you can't hear Podunk PD any more. I only assign Quick Keys to Favorite Lists, which I name by the state the Favorite List covers. (I live in an area where I can pick up radio traffic from 4 different states.)

I use Service Types (which older scanners don't have) to toggle categories of traffic on and off, since it is much easier to remember to turn on "Railroad" in the scanner menu if I want to hear railroad traffic than it is to toggle Quick Keys 7.12, 8.12, 11.12 and 12.12, and it's easy to see whether that Service Type is on or off in the scanner menu.

 

[douglasphansen]

Figured out how to toggle Systems within Favorites, and Dept within systems.

Any idea why an LTR system would not be coming through at all? Received the system flawlessly when using the BCD396XT. The 436 is set to receive the Favorite List/System/Dept that contains the site but I'm getting nothing.

For reference, the Site in question is East Fishkill PD in Duchess County, NY.

Thank you all again - really appreciate the quick responses.

- Doug

 

[troymail]

Any idea why an LTR system would not be coming through at all? Received the system flawlessly when using the BCD396XT. The 436 is set to receive the Favorite List/System/Dept that contains the site but I'm getting nothing.

For reference, the Site in question is East Fishkill PD in Duchess County, NY.

Thank you all again - really appreciate the quick responses.

- Doug

Have you tried receiving this system in a stand-alone favorites list (remove all possible misconfiguration issues)?

Do you have/are you receiving other UHF systems / frequencies?

 

[jonwienke]

For reference, the Site in question is East Fishkill PD in Duchess County, NY.

That's not a Site, it's a Department. You probably don't have an actual Site programmed for that system.

 

[hiegtx]

Figured out how to toggle Systems within Favorites, and Dept within systems.

Any idea why an LTR system would not be coming through at all? Received the system flawlessly when using the BCD396XT. The 436 is set to receive the Favorite List/System/Dept that contains the site but I'm getting nothing.

For reference, the Site in question is East Fishkill PD in Duchess County, NY.

Thank you all again - really appreciate the quick responses.

- Doug

Did you append the system from the main database, or program it manually? If programmed manually, did you place the frequencies in the correct LCN slots? Also, if programmed manually, did you enter the location information? If not, is your Favorites list using location control?

If using location control, when you manually program a system, you need to also enter the location details. Otherwise, the location is set as zero degrees for both Latitude & Longitude. That would correspond to a location out in the Atlantic Ocean, off the northwest coast of Africa, and obviously not in range.

Also be sure that you have all the correct service types enabled, and if using quick keys, that those are enabled and not set as avoided.

 

[douglasphansen]

Did you append the system from the main database, or program it manually? If programmed manually, did you place the frequencies in the correct LCN slots? Also, if programmed manually, did you enter the location information? If not, is your Favorites list using location control?

If using location control, when you manually program a system, you need to also enter the location details. Otherwise, the location is set as zero degrees for both Latitude & Longitude. That would correspond to a location out in the Atlantic Ocean, off the northwest coast of Africa, and obviously not in range.

Also be sure that you have all the correct service types enabled, and if using quick keys, that those are enabled and not set as avoided.

The East Fishkill has its own favorites list and is the only system inside. Would it be problematic if several systems have the same quick key even if they're located in different favorites lists?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[phask]

Doesn't an LCN system require the site freqs. to be entered in the correct (LCN) order? Depending on how you created your favorite list that might be the issue.

edit... there also are some blank freqs, or not used. The only way to know is analyze/LCN finder.

 

[troymail]

The East Fishkill has its own favorites list and is the only system inside. Would it be problematic if several systems have the same quick key even if they're located in different favorites lists?

Thanks,

Doug

Possibly - that's actually why I was wanting to know if you can receive the system if you create a stand-alone favorites list with only that system in it and no quick keys or other customization.

Doesn't an LCN system require the site freqs. to be entered in the correct (LCN) order? Depending on how you created your favorite list that might be the issue.

edit... there also are some blank freqs, or not used. The only way to know is analyze/LCN finder.

Assuming he did an import from the library, the LCNs are part of the data. I did an import and everything looked fine.

 

[ofd8001]

My questions:
1. Would you recommend a different configuration? Would it make more sense to condense all of the systems into 1 favorites list?
2. How the heck do you toggle systems and departments on and off? The only thing I've figured out how to toggle is a favorites list.

My BCD396XT was simple:
Had several systems with multiple departments built in. Toggling was easy. Press the quick key to turn a system on or off. Press Function to toggle the departments on or off. Having trouble understanding how to do the same thing on the new unit.

1. If this helps you to remember better, that's the way to go. Arguments can be made either way on which is best. Having more Favorites Lists help you to make changes with the fewest button presses. (There is a caveat to that thinking if you are dealing with trunked systems.)

2. The only differences between the x36 and x96 are an additional level (Favorites Lists) or a bigger container. Also a different set of steps to toggle "things" on/off. Once it "sinks in" you'll find it makes more sense.

Assuming you have set Quick Keys (Favorites List, System and Department) to everything here is the "mechanism":

FLQK.SQK.DQK Eyes - being sure you use the period . button as the separator between Favorite List, System and Department Quick Keys (to keep the scanner from being confused). So to toggle the City of Pougkeepsie, the keypress sequence is 02.00.02 Eyes. (Hopefullly not confusing you too much, you can actually forego pressing leading zeroes if you wanted to)

 

[jonwienke]

The x36 scanners also have Service Types to toggle stuff by category.

 

[douglasphansen]

1. If this helps you to remember better, that's the way to go. Arguments can be made either way on which is best. Having more Favorites Lists help you to make changes with the fewest button presses. (There is a caveat to that thinking if you are dealing with trunked systems.)

2. The only differences between the x36 and x96 are an additional level (Favorites Lists) or a bigger container. Also a different set of steps to toggle "things" on/off. Once it "sinks in" you'll find it makes more sense.

Assuming you have set Quick Keys (Favorites List, System and Department) to everything here is the "mechanism":

FLQK.SQK.DQK Eyes - being sure you use the period . button as the separator between Favorite List, System and Department Quick Keys (to keep the scanner from being confused). So to toggle the City of Pougkeepsie, the keypress sequence is 02.00.02 Eyes. (Hopefullly not confusing you too much, you can actually forego pressing leading zeroes if you wanted to)

Got it. Now understand how to toggle FLQK, SQK, DQK.


Here is my current setup:

FLQK 00:
SQK 00: Duchess S.O./911 (Conv)
SQK 01: East Fishkill PD (Conv)
SQK 02: Muni (EDACS)
DQK 00: Beacon
DQK 01: T/Fish
DQK 02:V/Fish
DQK 03: T/Pok
DQK 04: C/Pok
SQK 03: Orange County (EDACS)
DQK 00: Orange County/911
DQK 00: Harriman/Monroe/Woodbury PD
SQK 04: NYSP

Questions:
1. With the above configuration, when I toggle FLQK 00 (which I believe houses all of the listed SQK's) off, SQK 02, 03, and 04 are still running in the background. Why is that when they're assigned to the one favorites list?
2. Still have not been able to pick up any traffic from East Fishkill PD. Picked it up easy-peasy on my BCD396XT. This is the RR for East Fishkill PD. Not sure which what I'm missing.
2a: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1146
3. I'm not understanding the difference in scanning between 436 and the 396. On the 396 it seemed as though it would scan the systems in order (and all dept listed in each system) and then move on to the next. With the 436 it appears as though it only scans a select department and then moves on to the next system. Is this correct?

Thank you all again for all of your help!

Right now, this scanner is the bane of my existence. With all of your help, I will conquer this beast.

Thanks,

- Doug

 

[douglasphansen]

Got it. Now understand how to toggle FLQK, SQK, DQK.


Here is my current setup:

FLQK 00:
SQK 00: Duchess S.O./911 (Conv)
SQK 01: East Fishkill PD (Conv)
SQK 02: Muni (EDACS)
DQK 00: Beacon
DQK 01: T/Fish
DQK 02:V/Fish
DQK 03: T/Pok
DQK 04: C/Pok
SQK 03: Orange County (EDACS)
DQK 00: Orange County/911
DQK 00: Harriman/Monroe/Woodbury PD
SQK 04: NYSP

Questions:
1. With the above configuration, when I toggle FLQK 00 (which I believe houses all of the listed SQK's) off, SQK 02, 03, and 04 are still running in the background. Why is that when they're assigned to the one favorites list?
2. Still have not been able to pick up any traffic from East Fishkill PD. Picked it up easy-peasy on my BCD396XT. This is the RR for East Fishkill PD. Not sure which what I'm missing.
2a: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1146
3. I'm not understanding the difference in scanning between 436 and the 396. On the 396 it seemed as though it would scan the systems in order (and all dept listed in each system) and then move on to the next. With the 436 it appears as though it only scans a select department and then moves on to the next system. Is this correct?

Thank you all again for all of your help!

Right now, this scanner is the bane of my existence. With all of your help, I will conquer this beast.

Thanks,

- Doug

My hierarchy didn't post as it should have. The SQK is followed by its house DQK. The next SQK represents the next system and its corresponding DQK. Tab feature failed me.

 

[douglasphansen]

I'm basically trying to mimic my setup that I had in my 396XT which was as follows:
System 1: Dutchess County S.O./911
System 2: East Fishkill Police Dept.
System 3: Dutchess County Municipalities
Dept: C/Beacon
Dept: T/Fishkill
Dept. T/Poughkeepsie
Dept. C/Poughkeepsie
System 4: Orange County So./911

Thats all I'm trying to do and have each system have its own SQK. I had a really good grasp on the 396XT and could program it with ease. This one is throwing me for a loop.


Thanks again all,

- Doug

 

[jonwienke]

With the 436 it appears as though it only scans a select department and then moves on to the next system. Is this correct?

For trunked systems, no. Departments and talkgroups are NEVER scanned. SITES are scanned. Department and Talkgroup data is used to help the scanner decide what to do if it detects a transmission in a site's control channel data stream. You are still confusing Sites and Departments.

The scanner looks up the talkgroup ID in the talkgroups programmed for the system, and then looks up the Department the talkgroup is assigned to, to determine whether the transmission matches the Range and Service Type parameters you've set, and whether the applicable Quick Keys are enabled, or thare are any Avoids set. If everything meets the criteria you've set, the transmission is played. If not (the Department is out of range, the Service Type is disabled, the Department or Talkgroup are Avoided, etc.) the scanner ignores the transmission and goes back to monitoring the control channel for traffic that does match. After about 2 seconds (or the programmed Delay setting if you've just finished listening to a transmission), the scanner will move on to the next Site in the System, and if there are no more Sites, it will move on to the next System.

You can have thousands of Talkgroups and hundreds of Departments programmed for a trunked System, and it will have negligible impact on how fast the System is scanned. The only significant factor is how many Sites in the System the scanner tries to scan.

 

[UPMan]

1. If FQK 00 is disabled, then all systems under it will not be scanned. If you are still seeing them scanned, then I'd suspect you have some duplicate systems in another FL that is still active.

2. No idea. Not enough info to diagnose. I'd suspect the departments are disabled or you don't have the appropriate service types enabled.

 

[douglasphansen]

THANK YOU. Got it.

And as far as East Fishkill, you got it right, had the Service Type disabled (Only had Law dispatch and Interop selected - not Law Talk).

 

[ofd8001]

On Question 3 there is a difference on how the scanner goes about scanning "things". I suspect it's probably due to software engineering reasons.

From the 396XT Complete Users Manual:
Scanning Order
First, systems belonging to Quick Key 1 are scanned. Then systems that belong to Quick Key 2,…,9,0,11,…19,10,21,……,99,90 are scanned in order. Systems with no Quick Key are scanned last.

From the 436 Manual:
Scanning is performed with a mixture of FLQK order and SQK order. The scanner will not scan all Systems in one Favorites List and then move to the next List.
For each Favorites List, starting with 0, the scanner will scan each 0 SQK in FLQK order and then move to the next set of SQKs for each list. All Department and Site QKs are scanned with each System.
Example:
FLQK 0, SQK 0, DQK 0-99; FLQK 1, SQK 0, DQK 0-99….
FLQK 98, SQK 99, DQK 0-99; FLQK 99, SQK, 99, DQK 0-99.
Systems, Departments, and Sites with the same QK are scanned in order of creation.

The Database is scanned next, in order of creation. Then, Systems with no quick key (including created Quick Save Systems) are scanned and in order of creation.
Conventional Channels and Departments within Systems are also scanned in order of creation.

IDs are not really scanned. The scanner checks for any activity in the trunking system and:
• Will display all IDs when ID Search mode is set to On.
• Will display only programmed IDs when ID Search mode is set to Off.

Also and it's already been addressed previously, you were probably scanning duplicate "things". That will happen if you do not erase all the Favorites Lists in your scanner when you do a write to scanner. You may have a Favorites List still lingering around.