Benefits for HAM in the Fire Department

[JB1991]

Hey everyone, been wanting to get my ham license for quite some time now, and was interested in how I could possibly integrate a system with our fire department (been with them for about a year now). Basically what I am looking for is a few good pitches that I can pitch to our chief to help fund a base station/command center at the station here, in case of a radio system failure. Anyways, I told myself I would keep this short, but please do let me know if you know of any other FD's doing this and how it helps.

Thanks in advance! Meeting is tomorrow

-Jon

 

[kma371]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3GS: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148a Safari/6533.18.5)

I would contact your county OES. They may already have something going. Or contact your local ham ARES group.

 

[zz0468]

Hey everyone, been wanting to get my ham license for quite some time now, and was interested in how I could possibly integrate a system with our fire department (been with them for about a year now). Basically what I am looking for is a few good pitches that I can pitch to our chief to help fund a base station/command center at the station here, in case of a radio system failure. Anyways, I told myself I would keep this short, but please do let me know if you know of any other FD's doing this and how it helps.

I think one thing you should understand is, it is NOT legal to use ham radio as a substitute for a failed public safety radio system. It would be problematic, legally, to dispatch fire calls via ham radio because the system is down. What would be ok is, as an example, calls from a shelter to an EOC saying there are 500 refugees who need meals, clothing, and something to eat.

You need to be aware of how and why you can use ham radio in the department, and just as importantly, what you CAN'T do with it.

Check the ARRL web page for for details. They have a rather substantial program for emergency communications, and the means of helping people who are interested in getting started.

 

[Daniel_Boone]

I have to agree with ZZ 0468 and would add that you need to read Part 97 of the FCC rules - Part 97 - Amateur Radio

It will explain it much better then I ever could.

You are not prohibited from using any means necessary to call out a distress when in dire need of help (Emergency) - but you cannot run a command post style radio operation unless it is coordinated with one of the emergency groups already listed - even then it would have to be a natural disaster and not just a fire.

Most 911 UHF emergency radio transmitters / 911 call centers - do not use the AC power for their transmitters - at least not in Pennsylvania.
They are run off a battery bank and the only purpose of the AC power is to recharge the DC batteries.
Any large tower or 911 center would have a dedicated back up power supply - generator that would turn on as soon as the power went out.

The most you could ever experience would be a radio go out at the station or in the truck or a repeater go down. Most times those problems can be fixed easily - because the state has more then one repeater online that can pick up the slack and they don't buy one spare replacement part - they buy multiple spare replacement parts. So even when something does go wrong, all they have to do is pull out the faulty part and replace it with a back up. Send the faulty part out to be repaired / most times unless it was a dedicated part - it might not even go back to the same tower even when it is repaired.

 

[kc2rgw]

Basically the use would be to just chat amongst yourselves when not on a fire call. Already pointed out why you can't use ham radio for direct use of a public service agency.

Flesh this out a little more.

With OEM/RACES function, at least locally, we don't use amateur radio to transmit public safety functions/calls. The use of amateur radio in a RACES capacity locally covers a few things.

People in the field observing things like road hazards, traffic conditions, flooding etc. The amateurs relay this back to the NCS (net control station) who then forwards this to the relevant agencies.

Using data and voice modes to track storm shelter operations. Who is where, if adequate supplies are in each shelter and what is needed if not, who has checked out of a shelter. The main idea is to be able to give an inquiring agency or inquiring relative via message traffic the info of whether grandma is safe after an evacuation, if we had a record of her, if she was in a shelter, what her status is/was.

We also fill in handling backup staffing for dispatch if needed, staffing the field comm portable township comms station etc. Idea being that hams should have some decent level of ability to handle radio traffic...at least far better than the general public would.

We also do things like taking overflow phone calls to the central dispatch for non-emergency issues. "A transformer blew on my pole", then forward the info and handle opening the trouble tickets with the public utilities. "I need a generator for my heart monitor" that sort of thing, then we dispatch the appropriate resources. If they are govt resources, we use their frequencies and their equipment.

The role has blurred a bit with a combination of technology progress (It is far less likely to need a hand delivered ham-gram now or to need to write down messages for say intra-county communications) and DHS reforming/organizing OEM functions in general.

We would never dispatch law enforcement/EMS/FD etc over ham frequencies, nor handle traffic on ham frequencies that belong to the mission of those agencies.

 

[elk2370bruce]

I think one thing you should understand is, it is NOT legal to use ham radio as a substitute for a failed public safety radio system. It would be problematic, legally, to dispatch fire calls via ham radio because the system is down. What would be ok is, as an example, calls from a shelter to an EOC saying there are 500 refugees who need meals, clothing, and something to eat.

You need to be aware of how and why you can use ham radio in the department, and just as importantly, what you CAN'T do with it.

Check the ARRL web page for for details. They have a rather substantial program for emergency communications, and the means of helping people who are interested in getting started.

This answer is right on target from the word and intent in Part 97. Emergency first responder agencies have received FCC nastygrams and fines for using amateur radio to replace the use of their own systems (sometimes inadequate) in other parts of the radio spectrum. Before speaking with your chief, who probably wouldn't have a clue, speak with your county fire marshal and your emergency mnagement coordinator for a better (and legal) solution to your problem.

 

[k8tmk]

When I saw the title on this thread, I just couldn't resist.

If there is HAM in the fire department, they could roast him when they get hungry.

Sorry about that.

Randy

 

[rdale]

I think one thing you should understand is, it is NOT legal to use ham radio as a substitute for a failed public safety radio system. It would be problematic, legally, to dispatch fire calls via ham radio because the system is down.

Can you show me that in the regs? I was part of a ARES group that was dispatched to all fire stations in the city for a time when the radio system went down. The plan was to do all dispatching via the ARES repeater, but fortunately just as we ramped up the radio system came back online. What rule makes that illegal in an emergency?

 

[N8RUS]

SAESA Fire in stockbridge has a 2 meter dual band antenna on our tower installed by ARPSC just for the purpose of a system failure of the Ingham Co Public safety system. I believe other Depts have the same thru out the county. N8RUS

 

[n5ims]

Can you show me that in the regs? I was part of a ARES group that was dispatched to all fire stations in the city for a time when the radio system went down. The plan was to do all dispatching via the ARES repeater, but fortunately just as we ramped up the radio system came back online. What rule makes that illegal in an emergency?

§ 97.113 Prohibited transmissions. (paragraph 3) "Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer." If you work for a department, you can not use amateur radio for related communications. Your ARES group was able to legally assist since they weren't employees of the FD in question.

Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 10-72 Federal Register | Amendment of the Commission's Rules Regarding Amateur Radio Service Communications During Government Disaster Drills that was addopted in August 2010 changed the rules to allow the following exception: "A station licensee or control station operator may participate on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are limited to a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72 hours." Prior to that rule, such participation wasn't legal.

 

[rdale]

Thanks for clarifying...

And I love to see the press coverage if a FF did use ham in a disaster to save a life and got fined

 

[LtDoc]

The 'trick' is in defining 'emergency'. In actual emergency conditions using ham radio for public service is certainly possible and legal. But, it's only a 'stop-gap' expediency and when that emergency no longer exists it then becomes illegal.
That 'defining' of emergency is at the bottom of all the 'hoop-la' lately, and can vary to a huge extent. If it's planned for, equipment bought/set-up/prepared before hand, then there are legality issues which can arise.
Another aspect most people probably don't think about is that even in an emergency situation, any 'unusual' means of communications has to be documented and reported. This whole thing would apply if 'FRS' was used instead of 'ham' radio.
So, I wouldn't make elaborate plans on setting up a ham radio at the fire station for dispatching. You can certainly plan for it though. That seems a little 'odd', but it's a CYA thingy.
- 'Doc

 

[kg4ciu]

the benifit of having a ham in the fd is having a person knowledgeable in the arts and scince of radio, a person that can assit with recovering a fild system, , turn up cold back equipment , or use personal communications resources to call for assistance with the above.
the other aspect is the fd's ability to interface with hams in the general community, say you towns 911 systems experience a long term failure, by leveraging hams in the community, community alerting stations could be established,by having a Ham in the FD the fd dosen't have to rely on some one from the outside coming to them,on the flip having a ham in the fd allows the fd to call in ham resources.. the list goes on and on.

I would caution you to first determine how many hams you have in your fd and you all coming to a consensus as to how you would like to involve amateur radio in your fd , then present to the fd brass your concept to request funding

 

[JB1991]

Thank you for all of your excellent pointers. I believe the thing I would like to try to push with different ham operators in our city is the ability to communicate during severe weather, biohazard/hazmat reports, and other things to do with the community. We have a large amount of operators in our city (based on QRZ reports), for a smaller-sized town, we have no problem staying busy. I believe last year we had 385 structure fires for 2010 (structure fires alone, not to mention MVA's, etc etc...).

With the ability to communicate with our community we can have the ability to setup shelters (as we frequently do at the station during a time of an emergency), and be able to communicate effectively with mobile operators.

Anyways, just thinkning out loud here, most likely I would like to see the system used as a "fire department --> community" way of communication. Let me know what you guys think!

Regards,

-JB

 

[wyomingmedic]

As a 15 year ham and 14 year firefighter, I can tell you that you are going to have a hard sell to your chief. There is no reason for him to pay to install this stuff just so you can have a private chat line. And truthfully, it serves no purpose. Regardless of what QRZ tells you, the ham community is usually less than %1 -2 of the population. If you are wanting to use ham radio as a way to communicate with the public, you are wasting time and resources.

If there is some "all ending" disaster that takes your department radios out, then hams could be called and will respond with their own equipment. Then there is no problem with keeping un-authorized users from accessing the ham stuff at the station and creating problems. Firefighters do not know the differences a lot of times and will just grab microphones and start talking.

Now, if the chief would let you install an antenna on the roof of the station and have it available to bring your own equipment while you are on duty, that seems like a reasonable compromise. When we were running new radios at my old station, I had them pull another coax into the captain's room and I brought my own radio every shift. It worked well and was then removed so others did not mess with it.

As a side note, is your population really about 10 thousand? If so, 350+ structure fires a year is an absurd number. I came from a city department of 70K people and we had less than half that number of structure fires a year. Maybe your chief would be better to use money for fire prevention programs instead of ham radio stuff? I mean, that equates to more than 1 structure fire per day, per year. Just a thought from a long time Jkey.

WM

 

[JB1991]

As a side note, is your population really about 10 thousand? If so, 350+ structure fires a year is an absurd number. I came from a city department of 70K people and we had less than half that number of structure fires a year. Maybe your chief would be better to use money for fire prevention programs instead of ham radio stuff? I mean, that equates to more than 1 structure fire per day, per year. Just a thought from a long time Jkey.

WM

We document our calls differently to help put us ahead of competition when it comes to grants. Anything as far as a part of the house that catches fire we consider a structure fire, which includes chimney fires, or even appliance fires. We have our own hazmat team, EMS, and first responder all within our station, with a full roster of 60 people. 7-bay station, about 9 appartus vehicles, 2 sport jet skis, and a couple inflatable boats.

Not bad for a volunteer station, but we get health insurance outside of the department, as well as retirement.

 

[N0IU]

The other thing to mention from a legality standpoint is the fact that anyone using an amateur radio station in the firehouse(s) and in the vehicles needs to be a licensed operator or there at least needs to be a licensed operator present at the "control point".

I know that when people first get licensed they can sometimes let their enthusiasm run free and think of every conceivable way to use amateur radio. While enthusiasm is a good thing and while there is no question regarding the value of amateur radio in "emergency" situations, we also need to keep in mind that it is a hobby-based system of communications.

For commercial installations, your department really would be well advised to seek a backup system better suited to it's needs.

 

[lbfd09]

Great discussion here.

Many but, unfortunately not all, of the Homeland Security Grants to fire departments and public safety agencies have in their clause that the agencies must or will make accommodations for supplemental communications with the local amateur community (my wording - not DHS). Many at DHS realize the ability of us in the ham community to be resourceful, mobile, and eager to assist our communities in time of need.

Out here in California hams have been links to the community when the "never fail" phone system in a community has died. Tied in large graphical areas when affected my fire. In one fire hams put up instant (portable ham) repeaters, for amateur traffic, when the hill top were over run with fire; another shadows were used to team up with animal rescue volunteers to provide the link in safely rescuing animals displaced by fire (just two of many examples here). Passing health and welfare messages with the local community and an affected disaster (often getting replies withing 24 hours). Shadowing people that need to be in contact while awaiting radios or expansion of c-phones. Relaying on scene pictures via ATV to the command staff.

Did I get your mind thinking of the possibilities? Ok, as to the costs.... Local clubs, allied agencies, oh and grants. Don't forget fellow hams with equipment to spare.

Now the selling the chief. Oh that's the toughest. Need to find out what your local RACES/ARES group is doing in your community. Ask them how have a communications point at your fire house could help them. In our city the fire house turns in to the ECC with the inclusion of ham radio and use of our supplementary traffic. Next find out the communications need of your department (with hte help of area hams, this way you have an experienced ham helping to point you in the proper direction. As you can see there are many things ham radio can do and many more that ham radio cannot do.

Oh and to finish up on what our ham club is doing locally we have antennas at all key points of interest like the fire house, police department, and hospital where we can place our radios and be off and running. We link into the county AREAS group and are able to pass traffic and even tie in to state ham resourses.

Remember as Katrina illustrated health and welfare message were the messages of the day and not the emergency response messages which are on the public safety radios.

 

[reedeb]

We document our calls differently to help put us ahead of competition when it comes to grants. Anything as far as a part of the house that catches fire we consider a structure fire, which includes chimney fires, or even appliance fires.

So THAT is why everywhere I go in the Carolina's I here structure fire Just a way to CHEAT to get more money? Maybe there needs to be an audit?


BTW, I was a firefighter in a small town FD for 22 years and ran the Communications Dept there for 15 The ONLY time I used HAM at the station was when I was in there goofing off. IF I needed extra communications we had a fire notification group that also ran the firetowers in our area and could use those freqs to chat and get info like where the smoke was and what it looked like

 

[mjthomas59]

I've read the comments and I guess its gotten me quite perplexed. All of the hospitals in the Saint Louis Metro are setting up radio rooms centered around HAM radio. Why would they do this if it were illegal? Why would most all EOC's be equipped with HAM Radio and have to test this equipment to reach the State EOC.

Whether this is a function of ARES/RACES or not, the "Great Shakout" is just 1 example of dozens of simulations which require Hospitals and EOC's to communicate with one another, from the Federal level down to the local level, and it all relies on HAM Radio, most of it HF. Hospitals ordering supplies from the National Strategic Stockpile sure sounds like "pecuniary interest" to me or at the least the hospital would be considered a "business".

As was stated above, Homeland Security is now requiring alternate means of communication to be readily available to Emergency Services.

Do people honestly think that in a situation such as is going in Japan, but say it happened on the New Madrid Fault here in the US, that the FCC would run around issuing fines and seizing equipment from first responders?? When emergencies strike all the rules are thrown out the window. The argument is usually "if i'm in an life-threatening emergency and I have a HAM radio programmed to public safety channels, and it was my only way of communication, could I transmit?" The answer would be yes. So why would anyone think that going the other way around, where the Public Safety folks would have no other means, that somehow they couldn't do it.

Most areas are implementing plans just like this at Fire Departments, Hospitals, and other Dispatching points and EOC's.... its a great idea if your place of employment can afford to do it. How quick do you think your agency could replace its primary transmitter in an emergency? Would they need to order a new one? Does the manufacturer have to build one from scratch and send it out via freight to you? Are parts available for your equipment? Its likely that it would take weeks even under normal conditions to get parts, and more like months otherwise. The HAM's in my community have repeaters laying around their houses that they could deploy within a few hours if the crisis called for it. And its been done before and it will be done again. And no the FCC didn't come screaming at us for it.

What the OP wants to do can be done, and is done in most areas, but yes it is coordinated through ARES/ RACES and the Emergency Management Agency. Work it out with them and they might put equipment in at your place for little to no cost if you can give them tower space for an antenna or two.

I will admit I am a new HAM but i've been full-time in Public safety for several years. I just have to wonder why the HAM class I took was filled with Fire Fighters, Hospital admins, Directors of County Health Departments, etc etc all of which were being paid by their employers to attend. It must be because their employers (the state/county/city) are just encouraging them to pursue a new hobby that had absolutely nothing to do with their profession. That was sarcasm.