Better reception in the hills

[ronedog]

I'm wondering how much better reception I could achieve in the hills. I frequently go hiking and hunting with my kids...my teenagers now wander much further...we are in mountains of cedar trees, rolling hills.

I have 2 baofeng uv-82 radios...my kids use Motorola and we talk on frs.

I stay at my truck or side by side a lot and let the kids wander the hills. How much would it help if I mounted a 40ft pole with rg8x coax cable and connected it to my uv-82...anyone do this in hills? Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

It should help. UHF is line of sight, so getting the antenna up higher will allow it to see more.

For 40 feet, you'd get better performance with something higher grade than RG-8X. 40 feet of RG-8X at 462MHz is going to result in about half your signal lost in the coax. Using something higher grade will get more signal between your antenna and your radio.

Keep in mind that the FRS rules in the USA do not permit external antennas. Getting your GMRS license will permit higher power and external antennas.

 

[ronedog]

Thank you...didn't know that about the external antenna...is that the same for murs?

 

[mmckenna]

Thank you...didn't know that about the external antenna...is that the same for murs?

MURS can run external antennas, VHF will have less loss in the coaxial cable, and VHF should have an advantage in the hills, compared to UHF.

 

[smittie]

MURS is limited to 2 watts. Interesting trade off between power and wavelength.

 

[ronedog]

Ok great...thank you for the replies. With the trade off of 2 watts for murs, do you find that the murs frequencies are still better in the hills? How would a 5 watt gmrs compare to a 2 watt murs in the same hills? Is it really going to be a noticeable difference between the two? Thx

 

[K6GBW]

When you say "in the hills" the question to ask is, are there trees? Foliage has a tendency to soak up UHF more so than VHF. Both will work decently well for your needs, but if you live in a place with lots of trees the VHF would make more sense. Neither VHF or UHF will go through mountains, so if you are separated by a terrain feature you signal will be blocked either way.

When I was in the Army we used 1.5 watt VHF Low radios that worked pretty well in foliage. If, however we went over a hill the signal would be dead instantly.

 

[mmckenna]

Ok great...thank you for the replies. With the trade off of 2 watts for murs, do you find that the murs frequencies are still better in the hills? How would a 5 watt gmrs compare to a 2 watt murs in the same hills? Is it really going to be a noticeable difference between the two? Thx

Only way to know for sure is to try it. Really depends on the location.

I've been in deep canyons where UHF worked well because it bounced around off the canyon walls.
I've been other places where VHF worked better with the longer wavelength.

Antenna location is important, and I think you'd find that it's going to be pretty close either way on VHF vs. UHF.

 

[K6GBW]

Yes, Mmckenna is right. I used UHF when backpacking in the Grand Canyon and it worked amazingly well. Very few trees, but lots of big rock walls.

 

[K6GBW]

It's funny, I've never thought of this before, but the radios we used in the Army had frequencies that were only a little higher in frequency than CB radio. The power levels were also similar and I can say that the Army radios and a well installed CB performed very similarly. People tend to think Army field radios have really great range, but the reality is they don't, nor to they need it. We operated only a few miles apart most of the time. If we needed to go further than that we resorted to HF for beyond line of sight (BLOS). Given that your situation would be similar I'd go with VHF. A 40 foot mast might be a bit of a PITA. A 15-20 foot mast would likely give you all the extra height you'd need for decent communications over several miles.

 

[mmckenna]

And don't get hung up on the wattage. Noob mistake that many make, and is perpetuated by the "CB mentality".

A 4 watt radio is NOT going to talk twice as far as a 2 watt radio. It doesn't work that way. The physics say you need to quadruple your power to double the range. But usually line of sight gets in the way of that.

So, don't get hung up on power. It's the antenna and the antenna location that is going to make the difference.

 

[ronedog]

Ok thx guys...I think I'll give it a shot and buy a gmrs license and try a few things.

For setting it up heres my thoughts:

Pole: spider beam

Spiderbeam® 40ft /12m HD fiberglass pole

Vibroplex, Bencher, GHD and Hi-Mound Morse Code keys. INRAD headsets, microphones and filters. Par EndFedz EFHW antennas, Spiderbeam fiberglass poles. mAT-TUNER automatic antenna tuners, Easy-Rotor-Control rotator controllers, DX Patrol receivers

vibroplex.com

Rg8 coax:
MOOKEERF PL259 CB Coax Cable, 25ft RG8 UHF Male to Male Cable PL-259 Coaxial Cable for CB Radio,HAM Radio, VHF Radio, SWR Meter, Antenna Analyzer https://a.co/d/fthJgCT

Connector for handheld
https://a.co/d/2Us5A51

mount mast to truck...something like this:
Tanfix Foldable Hitch Mount Flagpole Holder | All Metal Heavy- Duty, Fits Standard 2" Trailer Hitch, Compatible with Jeep, Truck, SUV, RV, Pickup, Camper Trailer (ONE Flagpole) https://a.co/d/gRpa0Kd


Am I missing anything...do u think this would work or do I need other stuff?

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

Am I missing anything...do u think this would work or do I need other stuff?

What are you going to use for an antenna?


25 feet of RG-8 cable on a 40 foot pole? Might work out fine if you don't put the pole up all the way. Actually, the last few top sections of those masts are pretty thin and won't support much in the way of an antenna. You'll likely need to guy the mast (good paracord might be sufficient), or it's going to flop all over the place in the wind.

The trailer hitch mount is canted back a bit, so the antenna will be also. Ideally you do want the antenna vertical. One of these might work better:

https://www.amazon.com/ALPHABET-WONDERS-Flagpole-Tire-Mount/dp/B0CGY4TZWV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1QWH9WDWMEIMA&keywords=drive+over+mast&qid=1697577113&sprefix=drive+over+mast%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1

 

[ronedog]

Uh, this is where maybe I dont understand...I was thinking the rg8 coax is the antenna? Do I need to terminate the top end with the rubber duck I unscrew off the uv-82 when I screw in the rg8 to the handheld?

I'll get a straight hitch mount, and I'd prefer 50ft of rg8, so I'll look around more for that.

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

Uh, this is where maybe I dont understand...I was thinking the rg8 coax is the antenna? Do I need to terminate the top end with the rubber duck I unscrew off the uv-82 when I screw in the rg8 to the handheld?

I'll get a straight hitch mount, and I'd prefer 50ft of rg8, so I'll look around more for that.

Thanks

No, the RG-8 is just the path between your radio and the antenna.

I would not use the rubber duckie on top of that. While it would probably be a slight improvement, you'd want a decent antenna up there to make it work right. Base antennas get pretty heavy and will be very problematic with that mast. You could use a mobile antenna. It would be lighter and less wind resistance.

I'd use this base mount:

Laird External Antennas/TE - Base Station Adapter / Mobile - Base Converter Kit - MBC - Tessco

LAIRD's MBC is a base station adapter that serves as a mobile to base converter. This adapter kit is a value conscious option for VHF, UHF, 800 MHz and up applications. Bracket, clamps, radials, and mounting bracket are included. Antennas are sold separately.

www.tessco.com

With this dual band antenna (will work for MURS or GMRS):

Pulse / Larsen Antenna - 150-154 1.6 dB/450-460 3.5 dB Dual Band Antenna - NMO150/450C - Tessco

LARSEN's NMO150/450C 150 – 154 MHz 1.6 dB, 450 – 460 MHz 3.5 dB dual band antenna. Order Motorola style mount separately.

www.tessco.com

Tessco is an expensive source, so shop around, you can find it cheaper.

 

[ronedog]

Ah ok...making more sense now...thank you for helping!!

 

[ronedog]

Ok I did some shopping around to try to find cheaper. What do u think of this now:

Same rg8 cable pl259 I listed above but 50ft connected to this NMO connector

OPEK NMO-3-1 NMO to UHF (SO-239) Female Adaptor https://a.co/d/1XPESnT

Then Connected to this antenna

Larsen NMO150-450-800 Tri-Band Nmo Antenna https://a.co/d/26FdY0M

I forgot to include I have a uniden bcd325p2 scanner that I want to use out there at times and thought this setup would work for both.

I'm thinking I'll ziptie or paracord connect the antenna to the tip of mast, unless there is a better way? Maybe a plate like this:

VANROUG 2 Pcs L-Bracket 1255 3/4" Hole Thick Steel Mobile Antennas Brackets for UHF VHF Coax NMO Antenna Mounts Cable Mobile Antennas (Black) https://a.co/d/4e0JpGd

Your thoughts? Thanks

 

[buddrousa]

This will work better just add this to your pole and add you antenna and coax

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[FKimble]

You don't want to connect RG8 coax directly to a handheld radio. It's too stiff and will likely damage your antenna connection inside the radio. Best to go with a short(3 feet) jumper of very flexible coax between the stiff coax and the radio.

Frank

 

[mmckenna]

Your thoughts? Thanks

Should work.

Opek and some of those off-brand companies make some cheap stuff. It should work, but you may need to upgrade down the road.

That antenna would work for MURS/GMRS, even ham if you decide to go that route later on. You can use it for your scanner. Just not connected at the same time as the transceiver.