Canadian License label on BR330T?

[N9JIG]

As I was swapping out the batteries on my BR330T yesterday I happened to catch the FCC label inside the battery compartment. Part of it reads that a license is required for possession or use in Canada.

I thought this license was only required for digital scanners, not analog only radios like the 330? A mistake on my part or Uniden's?

 

[DaveH]

As I was swapping out the batteries on my BR330T yesterday I happened to catch the FCC label inside the battery compartment. Part of it reads that a license is required for possession or use in Canada.

I thought this license was only required for digital scanners, not analog only radios like the 330? A mistake on my part or Uniden's?

Must be some sort of mistake, or someone's idea of a joke. Could you
read out what it says, Rich? And despite persistant rumours, and some
vendors getting buyers to sign forms, there is no such thing as a Canadian
digital scanner licence.

Dave

 

[rdale]

No mistake with his radio and no joke by whoever sold it - they all say that.

 

[N9JIG]

Well, here is a shot of the label in question:

 

[N9JIG]

No mistake with his radio and no joke by whoever sold it - they all say that.

"They" all meaning all scanners? Not quite... This is the first non-digital scanner I Have seen with this disclaimer, it isn't present on my BC-15's, 780's, Pro83, R8500 or even my digital 785's and 2096's. It is present on my 996 and 396, so far the only other radios with this label that I have seen. I can't get at the back of my 796, it is installed in a console.

If you mean all 330's have it, that is kind of a given, I don't think Uniden had multiple label versions for a short term production run like the 330 had.

The point is that the 330 is a non-digital radio and I am presuming that the Radio License mentioned on the radio is required for digital capable receivers by Canadian rules, even though I don't think they are actually issuing any of these licenses. Kind of like the cannabis tax stamp in the USA.

I am still going with a mistake at this point. AFAIK there is nothing in the 330 that requires a Canadian Radio License.

 

[DaveH]

Sad that Uniden that makes great products continues to propogate
this misinformation if only by mistake. You guys are intelligent, I'll
leave it to you to make your own judgement...it's been debated at
length and pops up from time to time. UPMan, are you there?

Dave

"I hate cliches; I avoid them like the plague, 24/7"

 

[rdale]

"They" all meaning all scanners? Not quite...

Uhhh, no. The original post was about the 330, and DaveH suggested maybe it was a mistake with your scanner. I'm saying it's not a mistake, all of them have it.

 

[supernoma]

Uhhh, no. The original post was about the 330, and DaveH suggested maybe it was a mistake with your scanner. I'm saying it's not a mistake, all of them have it.

Yes, even my 396 has this... however, it's false. You do not need a license to operating any recieving only devices in Canada.

 

[Raven95150]

I found this, It appears you need a license for digital scanners in Canada, but not analog-only scanners:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cio/s...ank=4&V_DOCUMENT.highlight=false&language=eng

 

[rdale]

Your link is bad, and your summary is incorrect. You do not need a license to use a digital scanner in Canada.

 

[Raven95150]

Sorry, apparently the link expired after 30 minutes. Here is a link to the PDF.
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/IPC2104.PDF/$FILE/IPC2104.PDF

Not to say "I'm right and you are wrong," because I very well could be wrong, but this is straight from Industry Canada and it clearly states that a license is required for digital scanners. Unless someone can show some evidence in writing (not just heresay) to disprove it, I would have to believe it.

 

[Jay911]

No one has ever successfully produced a license obtained under the documents you specify.

The documents you specify are an internal memo for Industry Canada, not a law, and was drafted in 1996.

The law/Act referenced in the documents you specify makes no mention of scanners, digital or otherwise.

The law/Act referenced in the documents you specify makes no mention of fines/penalties for possessing a digital scanner without a license, which is kind of necessary in order to be in violation of the law. Also no "it is an offence to..." statement.

Every time anyone has contacted Industry Canada regarding the documents you specify, or the possibility of getting a licens/ce, every person spoken to at IC has had a different answer. Most are unaware of how to proceed at all.

As a further example of how cutting-edge IC is, in 2005 they decided that a new technology/radio communications band would be allowed in Canadian territory, namely the FRS/GMRS band. If IC is that far behind the times with such a widespread and commonplace service, I sincerely doubt that anyone with authority there has any comprehension of what digital scanners are or how they are used, let alone how long they have been in place and what to do about them.

 

[loumaag]

Jay,

I understand that you are there and are "in the trenches" so to speak and I am not. I don't doubt your word that no one has produced a license for the use of a digital scanner and I agree that the link provided is an internal document explaining to IC staff how to go about licensing; however, even governments don't produce such an internal document without backing.

The necessary "rules" can be found in IC RSS-215 with additional mention in RSS-135. Clearly the rules are there, enforcement is another matter. It is kind of like the laws in regard to jay-walking (no pun intended) across a street in the middle of a block, they exist but are seldom enforced.

As to the speed at which IC brings rules on line for established services, one could take the view that until such rules are promulgated for a particular service, it does not officially exist. However I take your point in this regard and a quick search of documents dealing with FRS on the IC site shows concern being expressed as early as 1999 in this lack of rule establishment. Please remember that prior to 1996, FRS did not exist here in the US either.

If you apply that same logic (no rule - no service) to the issuing of licenses for digital scanners, then the natural conclusion would be that any use of a digital scanner in Canada without a license issued for such use is illegal, since there are rules requiring such licenses. This of course ignores the non-enforcement angle I alluded to above.

As to the original topic of this thread, I agree that it would appear (on cursory examination) that the label in the BR330T is incorrect.

 

[Lexxx]

Not to say "I'm right and you are wrong," because I very well could be wrong, but this is straight from Industry Canada and it clearly states that a license is required for digital scanners.

Digital scanners are sold in Canada from reputable dealers, and no license is required. Click http://radioworld.ca/. There's a toll free number (top right). Call them and ask.

Don't you think it's a little odd that a relatively large scanner retail outlet would openly be selling the digital uniden 996T from their web site, and on-site in Toronto and not be selling a license to go with it if it was required? Hardly good business practise. This is a non issue in Canada. No license is required

I bought the uniden 996t mail order from the states. The package was clearly labelled "Digital Scanner" yet had not problem breezing through customs.

I think for your argument to carry any weight, you need to document (in writing) evidence that a digital scanner owner in Canada has had to acquire some sort of license.

Cheers
Peter
www.ykf.ca

 

[floydpink999999]

The Digital Scanner License in Canada is "only" an urban legend.
Last time I was in the Industry Canada Office here in Victoria, BC, I was simply stunned by the lack of general knowledge from the staff on the issues of licensing communications equipment. They are just typical civil servants droids, doing a minimal amount of work with ever-increasing budget cuts and staff-reduction.

Pretty pathetic situation, really...

 

[loumaag]

The Digital Scanner License in Canada is "only" an urban legend. ...

An urban legend is not true or at least is exagerated or distorted...

How does that definition square with the published rules linked above in my last post? The required license may never be issued, that does not change the fact that the rules require it.

 

[richster]

Hi Lou,

It is a legend. It's a lot like the Saskquatch.....everyone has heard about it, but no one has actually seen one.

Go to Industry Canada and demand a licence, and they look at you confused. After my query of such an application to this legend, I got; "We'll get back to you on that."

Well they never did.

Here is a link to this same licencing issue stating that it has no status in law.

I can easily say without hesitation that with the thousands of digital scanners bought in Canada, not one person has had to obtain this so called licence because it just does not exist. I said this in a previous thread in this forum a few days ago, I mainly blame Industry Canada for this confusion, and it doesn't help when Uniden is printing that we need this ficticous licence in their manuals and now scanners.

BTW I'm an unlicenced BR330T, and soon to be PSR-500 user. Shhhhh don't tell anyone. :roll:

Regards,
Richster.

 

[loumaag]

...Here is a link to this same licencing issue stating that it has no status in law.

Yep, I saw that before; however, I in my various posts on this topic, have never referred to that document to back up my point. I always refer to the various RSS sections themselves.

Are you saying that a violation of something specified in an RSS leaves no recourse for enforcement? If so then Canada must be a haven for pirate radio, hacking satellite TV, ect. If not, then the rule exists and can be enforced. That is not to say it is enforced, just that it exists.

Statements like "there is no requirement for a license" are blatantly false on face as there is indeed a requirement and it is spelled out in the rules. Again, I repeat, enforcement of a rule and existence of a rule are two different matters.

 

[richster]

Yep, I saw that before; however, I in my various posts on this topic, have never referred to that document to back up my point. I always refer to the various RSS sections themselves.

These RSS documents are not laws. They are just Radio Standards Specification, for internal use only for their confused employees. Our radio laws are covered in the Radio Communications Act.

Notice in the RSS-135, 1.1 scope, that there are 2 conditions in this procedural document to obtain and operate a digital scanner in Canada.

1. Is the TAC- Technical Acceptance Certificate. This is backed up by LAW in section 4(2) of the Radio Communications Act which states:

4(2) No person shall manufacture, import, distribute, lease, offer for sale or sell any radio apparatus, interference-causing equipment or radio-sensitive equipment for which a technical acceptance certificate is required under this Act, otherwise than in accordance with such a certificate.

2. Is this so-called licence, which quotes no law because there is no law. Never has been. It is not illegal to obtain or operate (without licence) a digital scanner in Canada period. If it was, there would be a section in the act stating so. Industry Canada cannot make Canadian citizens obtain a digital scanner licence with out it being law first, and not just because their RSS document says so.

Are you saying that a violation of something specified in an RSS leaves no recourse for enforcement?

Yup, again these RSS documents are not laws. They are internal procedural documents for their misguided employees.

If so then Canada must be a haven for pirate radio, hacking satellite TV, ect.

We have very stringent laws against those sort of things. Section 9(1) states:

9(1) No person shall

(a) knowingly send, transmit or cause to be sent or transmitted any false or fraudulent distress signal, message, call or radiogram of any kind;

(b) without lawful excuse, interfere with or obstruct any radiocommunication;

(c) decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed;

(d) operate a radio apparatus so as to receive an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c); or

(e) retransmit to the public an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c).

Statements like "there is no requirement for a license" are blatantly false on face as there is indeed a requirement and it is spelled out in the rules.

I will state this again, there is no law in the Radio Communications Act prohibiting Canadian citizens from owning or obtaining a digital scanner without a licence. It just doesn't exist anywhere.

Regards,
Richster.

 

[loumaag]

...I will state this again, there is no law in the Radio Communications Act prohibiting Canadian citizens from owning or obtaining a digital scanner without a licence. It just doesn't exist anywhere.

Well I will reply to this and then leave it you guys north of the border.

After reading carefully the various parts of the Acts and Regulations dealing with this the following is observed:

• Radiocommunication Act Para 4.(1)(a) says that unless exempted, all users of radio apparatus must obtain a license to use it.
• Radiocommunication Act Para 6.(1)(m) says that the Governor in Council may make regulations ... prescribing radio apparatus, or any class thereof, that is exempt, either absolutely or subject to prescribed qualifications, from the application of subsection 4(1)
• Those exemptions are listed in the RSS's that you so casually ignore as guidance documents when in fact according to Radiocommunication Regulations para 15.
  • Radio apparatus that is set out in and meets a standard set out in the Licence Exempt Radio Apparatus Standards List, as amended from time to time, published by the Department of Industry is exempt from the application of subsection 4(1) of the Act in respect of a radio licence.
• RSS-Gen (dated last month) lists Scanners as Category 1 equipment (See 2.1.1) and specifies that they have their own RSS's to provide guidance. Under Sec 2.6 of this RSS it plainly states that "Unless otherwise indicated, a person who uses radiocommunication equipment is required to obtain a licence or other authorization under the Radiocommunication Act."

After reading the Act, the Rules, and the RSS's it seems that the only reason you don't need to have a license to use a analog scanner in Canada is that RSS-215 says you don't. So if in your opinion the RSS's have no standing in law, then you must get a license for all of your analog scanners too.