Casual train monitoring tips?

[TonyMcN0BPA]

I have a new SDS-100 I am learning to use -- and having a great time.
I have loaded National Database, County, Zip, and chosen services including National Rail. I have several trains (plain ol' freights) passing w/in 1/2 mi. of my house several times in each direction, day and night, and an occasional yard mule sorting cars in the small hours of the morning. I hear plenty of hooting and banging and clanking, but nary a whiff of RF emissions seems to agitate my antenna. Seems like they ought to say something some time, especially with having to cross the Big Muddy via the BNSF lift bridge on occasion. I have BNSF and Santa Fe passing through.

Any suggestion how I can listen (and hear)?

Thanks!

 

[ElevatorsAndRadios]

Most heavy rail communication is simplex. So, for starters, you need to be in the range of a train's signal to hear it. While you may live within half a mile of the tracks, there may just be nothing the trains need to talk about while passing through your area. Perhaps you live on just another one of many miles of track they pass through quietly (at least as far as radio is concerned) and uneventfully.

Despite this, I would still expect you to hear at least the dispatcher every now and again. Perhaps try parking your scanner on the road or dispatch channel (in my area, they are the same channel) and see what you pick up. When I listen to trains, I am usually just listening on 1-3 channels MAX.

And of course, what you can hear on a handheld scanner is inherently limited. An outdoor, VHF antenna will always help, along with a more sensitive radio.

 

[laidback]

Instead of nationwide freq. try these that are MO based. These are defect detectors that talk on ROAD channels:
Railroad: Norfolk Southern
Division: Midwest
Subdivision: Springfield-Hannibal District
Location: Hannibal, MO
Milepost: DH 514.7
Model: Unknown
Functions: HBD-DED
Frequency: 160.6950
Active: Yes
Talk On Defect Only: No

Railroad: BNSF
Division: Heartland
Subdivision: River
Location: Oakville, MO
Milepost: 16.4
Model: Progress Rail Micro Talker
Functions: DED
Frequency: 161.3850
Active: Yes
Talk On Defect Only: No

These are listed for Hannibal MO. :

Frequency License Type Tone Alpha Tag Description Mode Tag
156.70000 M Marine V14 Local Port Operations FMN Transportation
156.80000 BM Marine V15 US Coast Guard - Local Ops FMN Transportation
160.44000 BM AAR F22 Railroad - Mississipp River Bridge Ops FMN Railroad
160.66500 WQIF444 RM RR 160.665 Operations (w/ Phone Patch) FMN Railroad


The zip is MO proper, all RR in MO.

 

[popnokick]

Also- be sure you have turned OFF tone squelch / CTCSS / PL / DPL or DCS on each of your programmed RR freqs. You want to hear everything, not restricted to a particular tone setting.

 

[TonyMcN0BPA]

Instead of nationwide freq. try these that are MO based. These are defect detectors that talk on ROAD channels:
Railroad: Norfolk Southern
Division: Midwest
Subdivision: Springfield-Hannibal District
Location: Hannibal, MO
Milepost: DH 514.7
Model: Unknown
Functions: HBD-DED
Frequency: 160.6950
Active: Yes
Talk On Defect Only: No

Railroad: BNSF
Division: Heartland
Subdivision: River
Location: Oakville, MO
Milepost: 16.4
Model: Progress Rail Micro Talker
Functions: DED
Frequency: 161.3850
Active: Yes
Talk On Defect Only: No

These are listed for Hannibal MO. :

Frequency License Type Tone Alpha Tag Description Mode Tag
156.70000 M Marine V14 Local Port Operations FMN Transportation
156.80000 BM Marine V15 US Coast Guard - Local Ops FMN Transportation
160.44000 BM AAR F22 Railroad - Mississipp River Bridge Ops FMN Railroad
160.66500 WQIF444 RM RR 160.665 Operations (w/ Phone Patch) FMN Railroad


The zip is MO proper, all RR in MO.

Thanks! With your reply, I have several tips on how I can improve my situation. I will switch to the local info, which is in my county, and eschew the national for now. Much appreciated.

 

[laidback]

This is a GREAT site to use as a reference : https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/

 

[popnokick]

Also plenty of MO RR info right here on the RR database -
Missouri - Missouri Railroads Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

 

[NielsenSTL]

When I saw "SDS-100", it triggered something I read on Trainorders about that scanner...a pretty harsh review for scanning rail channels in VHF. Here's part of the review from someone that appeared to know a thing or two about railfanning with a scanner:

" A while back I wrote a review pretty critical of the Uniden SDS-100. After using it and testing it for more time, I have the same conclusion, only even more harsh. I seldom post such a harsh subject line about a radio for railfanning, but this is one of those times. The Uniden SDS-100 is considered to be a "flagship" digital scanner in the radio community, and for listening to the various digital platforms common in the 800+ mHz bands, it lives up to its reputation. Sadly, the SDS-100's performance in the VHF bands used by the railroads (and the UHF EOT and DPU frequencies) is just a big fat FAIL. After doing some pretty exhausting testing--using various programming parameters and various antennas--the SDS-100 is just plain pretty "deaf" in the bands that railfans need to hear. It's obvious that the SDS-100 was designed specifically to perform best up in the 800 mHz range. To compound the bad performance for railfan use, the audio output in the VHF analog bands is poor quality that gets even worse at full volume--full volume itself being not that loud. In the spirit of full disclosure, I did not buy the SDS-100 for railfanning, but for monitoring in the digital public service sector. For that, it works well."

I've run across something like this myself with my Radio Shack digital scanner. It is really deaf in the VHF band, even with an antenna tuned to the RR frequency spectrum (around 161 mhz). So I went out and bought a BC125-AT for about $100 a year or so ago and it is so much better for listening to rail and air...night and day vs. the Radio Shack digital scanner with the same antenna connected.

So just something to ponder when thinking about your current scanner...that maybe it's not the best for what you are trying to hear.

Mark

 

[N4DJC]

The SDS series are not great on analog, but can be better with fine tuning using the various filters. The best hand held rail scanner is the Icom R-30, a hot RXcr with an incredibly fast scan rate (plus it records). It correctly decodes NXDN which is the future of rail scanning, like it or not.

 

[ILjim]

When using the SDS100/200 for VHF railroad, I suggest applying either the 'Invert' or 'Wide Invert' filter. I had an annoying problem with my SDS100 when it kept receiving images from nearby NOAA weather radio stations. Applying either one of those filters fixed the issue for me and I have never received images from NOAA ever again.

 

[Tim-B]

Here is an extra tip for the original poster. If they are not talking on the radio much in your immediate area then try monitoring 452.9375 MHz which is the head of train device frequency. Depending on how many buildings and trees there are between you and the train you will probably receive this signal from up to 5 miles away in rural areas and two or three miles in a denser environment. It will get louder and clearer as the train approaches. You will hear a one second long digital squak every 40 seconds as the train approaches. If you are a half mile from the track and you jump in your vehicle when you start to hear the signal then you will likely get trackside with a minute or two to spare before the train gets there.

 

[kj4jaq]

NS EOTs use to run on 67/67. the tone burst was a lot nicer sounding than the UHF models that replaced it that was just a "beep"

 

[wwhitby]

When I saw "SDS-100", it triggered something I read on Trainorders about that scanner...a pretty harsh review for scanning rail channels in VHF. Here's part of the review from someone that appeared to know a thing or two about railfanning with a scanner:

" A while back I wrote a review pretty critical of the Uniden SDS-100. After using it and testing it for more time, I have the same conclusion, only even more harsh. I seldom post such a harsh subject line about a radio for railfanning, but this is one of those times. The Uniden SDS-100 is considered to be a "flagship" digital scanner in the radio community, and for listening to the various digital platforms common in the 800+ mHz bands, it lives up to its reputation. Sadly, the SDS-100's performance in the VHF bands used by the railroads (and the UHF EOT and DPU frequencies) is just a big fat FAIL. After doing some pretty exhausting testing--using various programming parameters and various antennas--the SDS-100 is just plain pretty "deaf" in the bands that railfans need to hear. It's obvious that the SDS-100 was designed specifically to perform best up in the 800 mHz range. To compound the bad performance for railfan use, the audio output in the VHF analog bands is poor quality that gets even worse at full volume--full volume itself being not that loud. In the spirit of full disclosure, I did not buy the SDS-100 for railfanning, but for monitoring in the digital public service sector. For that, it works well."

I've run across something like this myself with my Radio Shack digital scanner. It is really deaf in the VHF band, even with an antenna tuned to the RR frequency spectrum (around 161 mhz). So I went out and bought a BC125-AT for about $100 a year or so ago and it is so much better for listening to rail and air...night and day vs. the Radio Shack digital scanner with the same antenna connected.

So just something to ponder when thinking about your current scanner...that maybe it's not the best for what you are trying to hear.

Mark

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me. I never realized how bad my PSR-500 was on VHF until it had to go back to GRE for repair, and I used my old PRO-96 instead. I was stunned at what the PRO-96 would receive that the PSR-500, which was supposed to be a better scanner, would miss. Even my old PRO-83 did a better job on VHF than the PSR-500. A friend of mine had the same issue with the TRX-2.

The consensus is that GRE and Uniden put their emphasis on 700/800 MHz trunked monitoring, and for the lack of a better word, skimped, on VHF and UHF. I've heard folks say that you need to use filters, but after spending $500-600 for a scanner, I can't understand the need to buy $100 filters to get it to work properly! That's like spending money on a fast sports car, and then having to buy extra parts to get it to over 55!

I now use my PSR-500 for only 700/800 trunked systems. If I need to scan VHF for local PD/FD/SO, I use my PRO-96 or PRO-83 and for railroad monitoring, I use Kenwood LMR radios.

 

[jtwalker]

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me. I never realized how bad my PSR-500 was on VHF until it had to go back to GRE for repair, and I used my old PRO-96 instead. I was stunned at what the PRO-96 would receive that the PSR-500, which was supposed to be a better scanner, would miss. Even my old PRO-83 did a better job on VHF than the PSR-500. A friend of mine had the same issue with the TRX-2.

The consensus is that GRE and Uniden put their emphasis on 700/800 MHz trunked monitoring, and for the lack of a better word, skimped, on VHF and UHF. I've heard folks say that you need to use filters, but after spending $500-600 for a scanner, I can't understand the need to buy $100 filters to get it to work properly! That's like spending money on a fast sports car, and then having to buy extra parts to get it to over 55!

I now use my PSR-500 for only 700/800 trunked systems. If I need to scan VHF for local PD/FD/SO, I use my PRO-96 or PRO-83 and for railroad monitoring, I use Kenwood LMR radios.

The "filters" on SDS scanners are enabled in the software, not buying any more hardware.

 

[nsrailfan6130]

Thanks for this, I could use this for reference on my railfan trips.

This is a GREAT site to use as a reference : https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/

 

[KC3ECJ]

When I saw "SDS-100", it triggered something I read on Trainorders about that scanner...a pretty harsh review for scanning rail channels in VHF. Here's part of the review from someone that appeared to know a thing or two about railfanning with a scanner:

" A while back I wrote a review pretty critical of the Uniden SDS-100. After using it and testing it for more time, I have the same conclusion, only even more harsh. I seldom post such a harsh subject line about a radio for railfanning, but this is one of those times. The Uniden SDS-100 is considered to be a "flagship" digital scanner in the radio community, and for listening to the various digital platforms common in the 800+ mHz bands, it lives up to its reputation. Sadly, the SDS-100's performance in the VHF bands used by the railroads (and the UHF EOT and DPU frequencies) is just a big fat FAIL. After doing some pretty exhausting testing--using various programming parameters and various antennas--the SDS-100 is just plain pretty "deaf" in the bands that railfans need to hear. It's obvious that the SDS-100 was designed specifically to perform best up in the 800 mHz range. To compound the bad performance for railfan use, the audio output in the VHF analog bands is poor quality that gets even worse at full volume--full volume itself being not that loud. In the spirit of full disclosure, I did not buy the SDS-100 for railfanning, but for monitoring in the digital public service sector. For that, it works well."

I've run across something like this myself with my Radio Shack digital scanner. It is really deaf in the VHF band, even with an antenna tuned to the RR frequency spectrum (around 161 mhz). So I went out and bought a BC125-AT for about $100 a year or so ago and it is so much better for listening to rail and air...night and day vs. the Radio Shack digital scanner with the same antenna connected.

So just something to ponder when thinking about your current scanner...that maybe it's not the best for what you are trying to hear.

Mark

Eek! So much digital is now on VHF high now a days too.

 

[kudzu_kid]

This is a GREAT site to use as a reference : https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/GISFRASafety/

Catching up on various goodies in this forum, thus the (very) tardy reply.

Oh yes, indeed. That is a GREAT site for rail between that, and Home - DefectDetector.net I'm good to go!

Thanks for sharing that resource with us!

 

[wa8pyr]

Catching up on various goodies in this forum, thus the (very) tardy reply.

Oh yes, indeed. That is a GREAT site for rail between that, and Home - DefectDetector.net I'm good to go!

Thanks for sharing that resource with us!

Unfortunately the Defect Detector site isn't completely accurate; while the locations appear to be fine, the operating frequencies in some cases are incorrect.

For example, it says the detectors on the NS Columbus District (Columbus to Portsmouth) use 160.455, but they actually use 161.190 which is the road channel for that line. I don't know where the site got their information, but it's definitely not correct; I know, I listen to the ones between Columbus and Chillicothe every day, and others farther south at least once or twice a month when I travel down that way.

I sent in corrections quite awhile back, but apparently I wasn't believed (or no one bothered to work the submissions). Not very impressive from a database management perspective.

 

[kudzu_kid]

Unfortunately the Defect Detector site isn't completely accurate; while the locations appear to be fine, the operating frequencies in some cases are incorrect.

For example, it says the detectors on the NS Columbus District (Columbus to Portsmouth) use 160.455, but they actually use 161.190 which is the road channel for that line. I don't know where the site got their information, but it's definitely not correct; I know, I listen to the ones between Columbus and Chillicothe every day, and others farther south at least once or twice a month when I travel down that way.

I sent in corrections quite awhile back, but apparently I wasn't believed (or no one bothered to work the submissions). Not very impressive from a database management perspective.

Thanks Tom,

That's a little disheartening to read . I was hoping it (defectdetector.net) would be useful resource - and I guess it still is - as long as I don't take the freqs as gospel etched in stone. So, let the reader use discernment, I guess, eh? As you say, the location data appears more or less cherry - looking at Google satellite imagery, zooming in in tracks and the actual detector (more or less), etc.

Unfortunately, I don't believe I live with RF range of a defect detector - though I have tracks about a block from my house. As I understand it, generally speaking, DD's (defect detectors) are located ~25 miles apart. My only receiving gear at the moment is my SDS-200 with a stock telescoping antenna or a Smiley RR whip and Broadcastify ("Scanner Radio Pro" app / Android). (I'm about to post a note about the capability of the SDS-200 in the VHF (particularly RR band)).

I mean this with much respect for the author and the idea & effort, but I got the impression the website was definitely a one man band. Like you, not sure where the person got their info. I don't know if each DD needs to be licensed or whether the railroad(s) have a 'blanket' license. Sometimes people set up a 'specialty' site for a hobby or whatever, and think they'll have all email sent there. Like, "admin@myhobby.com" or whatever. Then, after a few months of checking that email everyday and getting nothing. So you check once a week. Then once a month, then... well... you get the idea. The better way to do that is to have the hobby site forward to your personal account (something like Gmail is ideal as it can read multiple POP, IMAP, etc.; accts). Sigh... Ok, I'll shut up now. Hopefully, the owner of the DD site will get on the stick.

In haste: I did a little digging... It appears (rather interesting to me) that the domain is registered to someone in Oxford UK!?! The user has the registrars ID protection of sorts (not uncommon - keeps the spammers at bay a little bit). Looks as if his domain expires in the Fall:
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2023-09-30T14:13:58Z

You MIGHT be able to reach him/her at

@privacyshield.org. Not to dox the guy - as that's all publicly accessible information (WHOIS).


Cheers & 73 de N5KBD

 

[AK9R]

Unfortunately the Defect Detector site isn't completely accurate; while the locations appear to be fine, the operating frequencies in some cases are incorrect.

My railfanning experience is pretty much limited to IN, OH, KY, IL, WI, and AZ. Seems like talking defect detectors always transmit on the road channel.