SDS100/SDS200: Channel Hold Doesn't Hold Site, Why?

[joelincoln]

I'm a new user of the SDS100 and haven't purchased a new scanner since about 10 years ago... so I may be out of the loop here...

but...

When pressing the channel hold softkey, the system, department and channel do 'hold', but, if you have multiple sites scanning, the sites continue to scan/search. I know that pressing 'function+DeptHold' Softkey does hold the site, but that's a pain in the a$$ and too time consuming.

Why doesn't pressing hold, hold the site ???

Seems to me that the 'hold channel' function is most often, and most urgently, used to stop scanning when you hear something of interest. By definition, you're already on the site that is relevant to the hold and not holding the site will only risk temporarily losing what you're trying to hold.

I'd recommend reversing this operation so that the site holds _unless_ you press 'func+depthold'.

 

[marksmith]

Since it is holding on the TGID, it is not going to receive anything other than that TGID, but that TGID could theoretically be one that can be active on other sites.

It does take a second to look at another talkgroup, however, and if you have a bunch of sites programmed, theoretically that could cause you to miss transmissions off your held TGID.

I have not noticed that as an issue in the past, so maybe it is prioritizing the site that it was held on. ??

I'm a new user of the SDS100 and haven't purchased a new scanner since about 10 years ago... so I may be out of the loop here...

but...

When pressing the channel hold softkey, the system, department and channel do 'hold', but, if you have multiple sites scanning, the sites continue to scan/search. I know that pressing 'function+DeptHold' Softkey does hold the site, but that's a pain in the a$$ and too time consuming.

Why doesn't pressing hold, hold the site ???

Seems to me that the 'hold channel' function is most often, and most urgently, used to stop scanning when you hear something of interest. By definition, you're already on the site that is relevant to the hold and not holding the site will only risk temporarily losing what you're trying to hold.

I'd recommend reversing this operation so that the site holds _unless_ you press 'func+depthold'.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[joelincoln]

Since it is holding on the TGID, it is not going to receive anything other than that TGID, but that TGID could theoretically be one that can be active on other sites.

It does take a second to look at another talkgroup, however, and if you have a bunch of sites programmed, theoretically that could cause you to miss transmissions off your held TGID.

I have not noticed that as an issue in the past, so maybe it is prioritizing the site that it was held on. ??

Mark, Thanks for the input.

I realize this is not a major issue, and that I can rearrange the scanner's setup to minimize the impact. But I'm searching one system that has seven sites. Obviously, some units that are affiliated with one site may well not be on the others.

But, moreover, I just don't see the reasoning behind not holding the site. Is there an advantage to this in many situations?

 

[wx5uif]

If I remember correctly, it was changed to scan sites while on TG hold a few firmware revisions ago. Several people were wanting that function.

 

[marksmith]

Mark, Thanks for the input.

I realize this is not a major issue, and that I can rearrange the scanner's setup to minimize the impact. But I'm searching one system that has seven sites. Obviously, some units that are affiliated with one site may well not be on the others.

But, moreover, I just don't see the reasoning behind not holding the site. Is there an advantage to this in many situations?

While there may be some advantage in some cases with the way it works, I actually think you make a great point.

If you are stopping on a specific talkgroup to monitor something, the reasonable assumption would be that you want to also hold on that system and site.

Until your comment, I thought that is what it was doing. On the 536 you can't tell because it does not show the site (though you see activity on the s-scale if you are paying close attention), and I had not noticed it on the 436, which does display the site, as I have created a lot of my favorites lists to single out sites rather than follow a whole system of them.

I do have some systems where I am tracking multiple sites.

The 436, by the way, does the exact same thing as the SDS100. I figured it would because the firmware is basically the same.

All along, I figured I was freezing the system, dite, and TGID when I held the TGID.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[marksmith]

If I remember correctly, it was changed to scan sites while on TG hold a few firmware revisions ago. Several people were wanting that function.

It is acting the same way on my 436 and I have not updated that firmware for quite some time, at least 6 months prior to the SDS100, so it was part of the original firmware of the 100.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[wx5uif]

1.15.00 introduced it.

https://forums.radioreference.com/u...p-firmware-1-15-00-available.html#post2919484

 

[joelincoln]

Well, Mark, if someone from Uniden is listening, perhaps they'd chime in on what the logic is here and whether an option can at least be added to the firmware to reverse the operation of the 'channel hold' function if desired.

 

[joelincoln]

1.15.00 introduced it.

https://forums.radioreference.com/u...p-firmware-1-15-00-available.html#post2919484

Wow, that change was made to the x36HP's in April of this year!

 

[marksmith]

Well, Mark, if someone from Uniden is listening, perhaps they'd chime in on what the logic is here and whether an option can at least be added to the firmware to reverse the operation of the 'channel hold' function if desired.

It looks like the option that is available is to hold on the channel and also hold on the site at the same time. If you look at the firmware description above, it basically describes the reason as I had described... checking for that talkgroup on any site it might be on.

As you indicate, searching through the other six sites is more likely to cause you to miss activity if those other sites cannot be received or don't include that TGID.

So I guess we have learned to hit hold on both site and channel now.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[N9JIG]

This is a Feature, not a Bug!


The reason it checks whatever Sites are in the radio is because the talkgroup can pop up on any Site that a system radio affiliates with. This helps you hear the traffic even if there is no one affiliated with that talkgroup on whatever Site you might hold onto.


If it is an issue do what I do when I want to examine a specific Site: I created several Favorites Lists with just a single Site in it for the local systems I monitor. When I want to see what is happening in a Site I just turn on that Favorites List. If I hold on a Talkgroup in this mode it remains just on that Site.



The easiest way to do this is to export the entire System and make several copies of it. Delete all the Sites other than the one you want to retain and then name that Favorites List after the System and Site. Set it to Trunked Search to help find previously unknown talkgroups, that they are on that Site might help identify the user.

 

[marksmith]

What you describe as a workaround is the way I mainly set up a lot of my favorites lists, and the reason I had not noticed it.

I understand the value of hearing a talkgroup as affiliated radios may change across sites.

I also understand the disadvantage that if you have 7 sites that it takes a second to check each site and you could miss activity while it checks sites not receivable or without an affiliated radio on that talkgroup.

Like many enhancements, it depends on your situation whether it is an aid or not.

The key is knowing how to use it to your advantage, or how to defeat the logic in your programming if it is not a help. That way you have the best of both worlds.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[captainmax1]

That was the 420 update. For 4 years after the x36 was released, I could lock on a site by pressing the Channel or Dept button as a shortcut. When the update came out I was lost because I had used the shortcut for so many years that I had forgotten that function/Dept was the official site locking procedure. People on these forums set me straight and I know I sounded like an idiot to some when I first mentioned this. These forums have helped me more than anything else learning the x36 and SDS100 scanners the last 5 years.

 

[joelincoln]

This is a Feature, not a Bug!


The reason it checks whatever Sites are in the radio is because the talkgroup can pop up on any Site that a system radio affiliates with. This helps you hear the traffic even if there is no one affiliated with that talkgroup on whatever Site you might hold onto.


If it is an issue do what I do when I want to examine a specific Site: I created several Favorites Lists with just a single Site in it for the local systems I monitor. When I want to see what is happening in a Site I just turn on that Favorites List. If I hold on a Talkgroup in this mode it remains just on that Site.



The easiest way to do this is to export the entire System and make several copies of it. Delete all the Sites other than the one you want to retain and then name that Favorites List after the System and Site. Set it to Trunked Search to help find previously unknown talkgroups, that they are on that Site might help identify the user.

Rich, Thanks for the info.

I know it's not a bug and I know there are ways to modify (jerry-rig) the scanner to avoid the problem. I also recognize why someone might sometimes want to hold the TG while scanning the sites.

My point is that, to me, it seems much more likely that when someone presses 'hold' they mean 'hold everything. Also, this scenario is more time-dependent, in that when you press hold, you need to stop NOW and can't be fiddling with other shifted functions.

I'd also point out that when searching for new TGs, it's good to know what site that TG was received on. If I hear something and press hold, and if I'm not on my game , I could miss what site was received before it scans on.

Again, none of this is earth shattering, it just seems like a usability issue.

 

[TailGator911]

These forums have helped me more than anything else learning the x36 and SDS100 scanners the last 5 years.

Ditto on that, Cap'n. Lots of helpful folks on here. Altho I am not nearly as technically proficient as some on here are, I do what I can to pay it forward. That is the way this site is supposed to work

JD
kf4anc

 

[N9JIG]

The thinking at the time was that the majority of users want to hold on the Talkgroup itself and some users were not hearing it because of the lack or loss of affiliations. Most users of the scanner care (or know) little about the Sites, they just want to hear the local police or fire channels regardless of the Site they use.



Remember that these radios were not designed for you and I (experienced scanner people) but for Joe and Tanya who do not know or care about the difference between Sites and Talkgroups. The ability for the radio to check other Sites for the talkgroup when placed in Channel Hold serves more people than otherwise.

 

[ofd8001]

I might be the odd guy out. I think if you press channel hold to hold on a talkgroup, it should also hold on whatever site is active at the time you hold (perhaps some kind of Function+Channel Hold deal to hold on the site too).


Here is the reason: You take a system like we have here in Louisville, or the one I'm familiar with in Minneapolis. Either place I can get at least three separate sites. However, many of the talkgroups are allowed affiliation on specific (but not all) sites. So if I hold on TGID 1 on Site A, the scanner may miss a transmission while it checks the control channel on Sites B and C for TGID 1 that ain't never gonna be heard on them.


All that said, doing this might be a nightmare for the software engineer because it would add some "If/Then" stuff to the program.