Chinese Radios flooding DMR Market

[Hamradiostuffing]

I used to work in the consumer electronics field and saw I similar situation when Samsung and Goldstar entered the market in the late eighties. These two companies flooded the markets with cheap tv’s and VCR’s. The major brands like RCA, and Zenith started to feel the pinch of declining sales and made it harder for them to compete and make a profit.
I believe that the influx of cheap Chinese DMR radios will affect the US two way radio markets in the same way. It is will be harder for the major radio manufacturers to make a profit and the margins will get slimmer and slimmer as time goes by. Trying to sit on brand name reputation is not going to get them through this in my opinion. They will have to be creative. All I can say is good luck.

 

[AI7PM]

Big three need to get onboard with DMR offerings. I know they have their "own" versions of DV they prefer to push, and, they're shooting themselves in the feet. Most of the consumers want DMR. On the other hand, when the customer base consist largely of those who value low price, throw away, garbage instruments over quality, how do the producers of quality instruments compete.

 

[flythunderbird]

On the other hand, when the customer base consist largely of those who value low price, throw away, garbage instruments over quality, how do the producers of quality instruments compete.

Great point. That can be said about most things, given that we live in a throw-away society. I'm willing to pay for something that will last, but I also know that I'm in the minority.

 

[mmckenna]

Big three need to get onboard with DMR offerings. I know they have their "own" versions of DV they prefer to push, and, they're shooting themselves in the feet. Most of the consumers want DMR. On the other hand, when the customer base consist largely of those who value low price, throw away, garbage instruments over quality, how do the producers of quality instruments compete.

A couple of points...
Motorola and Kenwood both make and sell DMR radios and systems.
Most consumers don't know DMR from NXDN from MTV. If by "consumers" you mean amateur radio operators, well, yeah, they do seem to like DMR, but they also liked a lot of other stuff before DMR.
As for the quality of the radios, the big manufactures make better radios, and those in the public safety field know that. No reputable agency or shop is going to put life safety communications on a $12 Chinese radio.

Hopefully what we'll see is prices getting driven down. I don't see CCR's taking over the industry. I've been doing this for nearly 30 years now, and while some radio guys will mess around with the CCR's, none of them really take them seriously. They are a joke, a toy, something to play with, but not a replacement for the real think. Kind of like having a cheap dirt bike to play with on the weekend, but it ain't going to replace the family car.

Big difference between consumers and professionals.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

No reputable agency or shop is going to put life safety communications on a $12 Chinese radio.

This!
I would like to add the no responsible legal department or entity who represents an agency would allow their clients to assume the potential risk in using these effectively unsupported radios.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

This!
I would like to add the no responsible legal department or entity who represents an agency would allow their clients to assume the potential risk in using these effectively unsupported radios.

I think it is however about the Ham Radio Market. They work good enough for that.

 

[vagrant]

An inexpensive Chinese radio got me into the TX side of the hobby. I now own various Kenwood, Yaesu, Motorola and Icom radios simply because the quality is better in so many ways. I still have that CCR but I have not used it in years.

I am not a fan of DMR. I feel that the audio is fine for short service oriented communications, but not for extended conversations. I simply do not care for the poor fidelity of the audio. Still, some people I know are unable to hear the difference from one digital mode to the other; good for them.

Wait, there is a Kenwood DMR handheld, one of latest, that sounds fantastic. I forget the model, but it sounded great. I think it is around $3k.

 

[mmckenna]

Wait, there is a Kenwood DMR handheld, one of latest, that sounds fantastic. I forget the model, but it sounded great. I think it is around $3k.

Kenwood has a couple of DMR capable professional radios. None are in the $3K range, although a fully loaded NX-5000 might be if you went all out on the options. An NX-5000 with the DMR option is still under $1K. Considering you can add P25, trunking, as well as a lot of other options, it's a pretty good radio.
NX-3000 series are pretty nice. I'm using a few in analog only at a remote site. Users are very happy with them. They'll do DMR -OR- NXDN out of the box.
TK-D#40 series are the lower tier option.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

An inexpensive Chinese radio got me into the TX side of the hobby. I now own various Kenwood, Yaesu, Motorola and Icom radios simply because the quality is better in so many ways. I still have that CCR but I have not used it in years.

I am not a fan of DMR. I feel that the audio is fine for short service oriented communications, but not for extended conversations. I simply do not care for the poor fidelity of the audio. Still, some people I know are unable to hear the difference from one digital mode to the other; good for them.

Wait, there is a Kenwood DMR handheld, one of latest, that sounds fantastic. I forget the model, but it sounded great. I think it is around $3k.

For hams that are interested in DMR there is the new Alinco DJ-MD5T dual band DMR HT that offers a more name-brand amateur radio alternative to the typical CCR DMR radio. $150.
HVDN Notebook: Review: Alinco DJ-MD5T Series DMR Radio

 

[vagrant]

An NX-5000 with the DMR option is still under $1K. Considering you can add P25, trunking, as well as a lot of other options, it's a pretty good radio.

Thank you for that. The NX-5000 was indeed the radio I heard. You are quite correct about the pricing. It is nice that one can add features as needed. The one I heard was fully loaded with P25, DMR, FPP and I think another feature. It does add up to over a couple thousand pretty quick.

I am unwilling to converse via DMR using a CCR. My ears deserve better than that.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Thank you for that. The NX-5000 was indeed the radio I heard. You are quite correct about the pricing. It is nice that one can add features as needed. The one I heard was fully loaded with P25, DMR, FPP and I think another feature. It does add up to over a couple thousand pretty quick.

I am unwilling to converse via DMR using a CCR. My ears deserve better than that.

Some of the CCR Radios work better than people give them credit for.

 

[vagrant]

Some of the CCR Radios work better than people give them credit for.

Good point. I have not heard all available CCR DMR radios.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Hopefully what we'll see is prices getting driven down. .

Exactly that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[Hans13]

I think that the drive to competition is a good thing. Big commercial manufacturers, I think, will only drop quality so far to compete but will still produce high quality, higher dollar equipment for government and deeper pocket industries. Frankly, I don't see a market downside from a consumer point of view.

For hams that are interested in DMR there is the new Alinco DJ-MD5T dual band DMR HT that offers a more name-brand amateur radio alternative to the typical CCR DMR radio. $150.
HVDN Notebook: Review: Alinco DJ-MD5T Series DMR Radio

My DJ-MD5TGP should be here by January 3rd.

 

[mmckenna]

Some of the CCR Radios work better than people give them credit for.

Depends on the environment. With poor/lack of filtering, they'll work fine in some situations, but very poorly in others. Having to worry about where you are and if your radio is going to work isn't a place that public safety needs to be in.

Fine for hobbyists/amateurs, but not for pro's.

 

[AI7PM]

......Big difference between consumers and professionals.

Yeah, I should have been more specific. Hams. The cheap hams.

 

[Stretchman]

The biggest difference is Superheterodyne VS SDR. SDR radios are cheaper by nature, but desense pretty easily, and have alot of things proccessed in software that would normally be handled by an actual chip.

Hearing Fusion over DMR is a thing to behold. A good fusion radio is about 300, but you can get one for only 140 dollars. It's the 300 dollar hotspot you need to make it work that is going to set you back. I guess the point is that DMR isn't only limited to what we typically call DMR, which is MotoTRBO. No matter what, the gear is going to set you back one way or the other.

I have limited experience with DStar. Again, mostly from a hot spot, on top of the actual gear cost. The MotoTRBO system is the most popular right now, but mostly, the radios are not ready for prime time, and the repeaters are only available in the bigger cities. A lot of places, and you need a hotspot in order to connect.

I'd like to see Fusion take off, but I am not holding my breath. The radios are inexpensive, and the mode itself is very stable. It's compatible with TRBO, and P25, as well as WIRESX. Yeasu stuff has been pretty bulletproof for me in the past. But, it's still in it's infancy, and like everything else, we'll have to wait and see.

For any digital system, expect to pay between 5 and 6 hundred dollars to get it up and going. Although you can cheap out, there are a lot of reasons why buy once, cry once might apply.

 

[Hamradiostuffing]

Yeah, I should have been more specific. Hams. The cheap hams.

Some hams are low income and can not afford higher priced equipment. That only supports my point that CCR Radios will have an impact on radio pricing. Not all end users are Public Service Agencies.

 

[N4KVE]

2 weeks ago my friend picked up 2 clean Moto XPR6550’s that work perfectly for $75 each. He knew the seller, so there were no worries about the radio working properly. Sadly, too many people think $800 when someone says the name Motorola.

 

[w8red]

Gonna get me started.....

Hams....
While I admit there are some poorer hams in the hobby..... for 75% it is priorities on ham radio.

Do five things as an experiment for yourself and I bet you will be suprised....
1) Pick a larger ham/ARES club in the area, even if you are not a member and walk the parking lot during a club meeting. How many $45k+ pickup trucks, SUV's and muscle car/import car 's do you see?
2) If you are a member of a club, at the next club meeting ask for a show of hands on how many peoples CableTV/DishTV/DirectTV bills are over $125 a month not counting internet. Then ask how many subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket, NHL Pass or MLB Baseball passes on their TV package.
Lastly ask how many people in a show of hands have spent over $750 on their living room/family room home theater system.
3) If you have a group that is the outdoors types, ask them how many have over $3k invested in their fishing gear, camping gear or hunting gear. How many own a bass boat.
4) If you have a group that is also into guns ask them what is the cheapest handgun cost they bought (bet it is $350) and what is the total value of their gun collection.
5) Ask how many own an RV

I will bet you will be surprised at the outcome.

Some of my findings....
1) The guy that is on a "fixed income" that lives on a golf course, asks for a
fixed income discount on the ham clubs measly $25 annual dues.
2) The guy that whines the loudest about the cost of ham gear is probably driving a late model $50k+ pickup truck.
3) The guy that whines the second loudest just took his wife and family on a $3k+ vacation within the last six months.
4) The guy whining the 3rd loudest spends $1000+ a year on outdoor memberships (RVing, Camping, hunting, Fishing)