Clifton PD - Alleged radio performance issues
- Thread starter railtrailbiker
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radiomanNJ1
Member
On 155.625?
Clifton Police has 2 primary repeated VHF channels; 155.910 and 155.625. There are about 4-5 voter receivers located through the city(located at Fire Stations) connected via microwave link. Even with this, there still remains a few poor RF locations in the city. However, with the City PD and now the FD reconsidering very seriously a movie to NJICS.
However, with sales reps now pushing very hard upon city government and department heads to have ALL their services (PD,FD,EMS,DPW, Building and Health) switch to NJICS (Like Belleville, NJ). The radio issues news article may indeed be part and parcel of a Public Relations Push by the PD through print media to have this move to the NJICS happen sooner rather than later.
???You can see more on this here: https://forums.radioreference.com/t...on-system-nj-ics.217613/page-176#post-3095851
Could be a ploy.
Danny37
Member
Definitely sounds like it, all these email show up when they're supposed to move to the state's system by the end of the year. Definitely smells fishy.
railtrailbiker
Member
A full article appeared in today's The Record:
A Clifton officer's radio failed while chasing two suspects. It wasn't the first time
A Clifton officer's radio failed while chasing two suspects. It wasn't the first time
Harris portables? Sounds like the FD don't want to go Trunked.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
The cop had difficulty with his radio, not in Clifton, but in Kearny, NJ, which isn't exactly walking distance from Clifton. While the VHF radios should work, I'm sure that's going to play into the conversation at some point.
And they'll probably prohibit chases outside of the town, the cheaper solution, rather than address the radio issue,
And they'll probably prohibit chases outside of the town, the cheaper solution, rather than address the radio issue,
Clifton to Kearny is only about 7 or 8 miles in a straight line. A properly working radio should have no trouble at that distance, especially over relatively flat terrain. I live about 5 miles outside of Clifton and their PD and FD frequencies have always been very scratchy. It never really made any sense.
Clifton VHF Public Safety communications have been in a state of transition over the 15 years especially with the FCC Narrow banding deadline of Jan of 2013. Clifton VHF Public Safety communications were pretty decent even before the switch to repeater operations about 15 years ago also. Before narrow banding they used high gain Super Station Master Base / Repeater type antennas which provided a large decent RF Transmit footprint in which Dispatch/HQ could be heard clearly up to 20 -30 Miles away. When they switched to a repeater system for all their departments, the signal was still heard 20-20 miles away but now you received both sides of the conversation.
There always has been some small rough receiving areas in town due to topography even when voter receivers were installed which eliminated some but not ALL of the receiving issues.
With implementing narrow banding the high gain base/repeater antennas were replaced with much lover gain and a more directed pattern to help keep the signal with in the town borders as much as possible.
As far as I know RF TX power has remained the same. However, even “repeaterized” the RF foot print now on a good day is only about 10 – 12 miles which barley covers neighboring towns. What was once a “strong” signal, if you’re outside of the new RF footprint, the signal will indeed sound scratchy.
There always has been some small rough receiving areas in town due to topography even when voter receivers were installed which eliminated some but not ALL of the receiving issues.
With implementing narrow banding the high gain base/repeater antennas were replaced with much lover gain and a more directed pattern to help keep the signal with in the town borders as much as possible.
As far as I know RF TX power has remained the same. However, even “repeaterized” the RF foot print now on a good day is only about 10 – 12 miles which barley covers neighboring towns. What was once a “strong” signal, if you’re outside of the new RF footprint, the signal will indeed sound scratchy.
S
SunshineRadio
Guest
I can hear Clifton,NJ down in Princeton,NJ perhaps its just 1 defective radio they had.
I used to go on vacation in Ocean City,Nj and could hear it there too using a cheap radio shack PRO-2009 8 channel base scanner.
Heck probably they should go back to MOTOROLA from HARRIS.
I used to go on vacation in Ocean City,Nj and could hear it there too using a cheap radio shack PRO-2009 8 channel base scanner.
Heck probably they should go back to MOTOROLA from HARRIS.
And Marlboro PD bleeds over Wayne Fire if you monitor CSQ, isnt that why PL Tones were invented.
Ant9270
The Green Weenie
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Should have rephrased myself. Actually, if you monitor Pleasantville (westchester county NY) with the correct PL, Clifton still bleeds through in the background.
railtrailbiker
Member
This article appeared on northjersey.com today. The article is restricted to "subscriber view only," so pasting a link won't work. I've copied and pasted it here instead.
Will $1.6 million fix Clifton's police radio problem? It will take six months to find out
CLIFTON — City cops will have to deal with the possibility of failed or dropped radio calls for at least six to eight more months.
After 20 years of communication failures that cops say have jeopardized their safety, the City Council authorized spending $1.6 million to buy new handheld police radios.
"We have a long road ahead of us, but I am very happy that the process has begun," Chief Mark Centurione said.
A combination of equipment failures and dead zones have been blamed for the communication problems that plagued the department for the last two decades, say police and city officials.
Officers spoke out again about the communication failures in spring and the council made a decision to take action in April. City Manager Nick Villano said he received approval to hire an independent consultant who was tasked with determining whether the city should stick with its towers or switch to the statewide P-25 system.
The process took months.
The consultant, Rich Touroonjian of Allegiant Wireless, recommended the city join New Jersey Interoperable Communications System, also known as P-25, which uses communications systems located throughout the state.
"We tested it and it seems to work," Villano said. "The chief, some of the police brass - all seem to be in favor," Villano said.
After the city received state approval to join P-25 in early summer, officials worked with Motorola to choose the radios. A purchase order was placed on Sept. 27.
"Time is of the essence," a memo from Centurione to Villano reads. "It can take up to six months before the system is operational."
Even though the order for new radios has been placed, Villano said the solution takes time to implement, especially with a department as large as Clifton's.
Temporary safety measures have been put in place as officers await the new radios and system. Patrol vehicle GPS systems have been turned on to better track location of officers, who will also be allowed to use cellphones to communicate.
Failed calls
Early this year, Sgt. Joshin Smith experienced the radio failure when he came face to face with two wanted and fleeing theft suspects. He drew his gun and called for backup.
The police radio failed.
"I attempted to communicate with headquarters via my handset but they could not hear me," reads Smith's January police report.
After Smith's radio failed, he reached into his pocket for his cellphone and used it to notify Clifton police headquarters of his exact location in Kearny, where the police chase that had begun in Clifton came to a halt. A parent, who was there to pick up his child from an event at the nearby elementary school, "recognized the situation" and asked the officer if there was anything he could do to help.
"I instructed him to call 9-1-1," reads Smith's report of the incident. "Approximately 3 minutes later Kearny police units arrived to assist me," the officer wrote. The suspects were charged with aggravated assault with a weapon, assault on police, fleeing and a number of drug offenses.
It was not an isolated incident, say Clifton officers. Since Smith's Jan. 16 incident, at least a dozen similar radio failure complaints have been recorded.
Taking action
Department of Labor and Workforce Development launched an investigation into the failed calls in April after it received complaints from officers. The investigation was concluded in July and on Aug. 22 the state issued an order to the city to resolve the radio concerns within 15 days.
Officers also filed a complaint with the Public Employees' Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA), citing unsafe working conditions.
The council's authorization for funds comes after months of experts examining the radio communications problem, the cost to fix it and the solutions.
The city has a few well known dead zones in spite of spaced-out towers, Villano said.
While in the city's Botany section during the summer, Villano said he witnessed two officers, about 100 yards apart, unable to communicate via radio. There was no doubt something had to be done, he said.
The city was able to place an order for the equipment with a pre-approved state contractor list, which expedited the process, officials said
The council approved the purchase last Tuesday.
"What’s most important is that the communication system is dependable most especially during police operations that are sensitive," said Mayor James Anzaldi.
Will $1.6 million fix Clifton's police radio problem? It will take six months to find out
CLIFTON — City cops will have to deal with the possibility of failed or dropped radio calls for at least six to eight more months.
After 20 years of communication failures that cops say have jeopardized their safety, the City Council authorized spending $1.6 million to buy new handheld police radios.
"We have a long road ahead of us, but I am very happy that the process has begun," Chief Mark Centurione said.
A combination of equipment failures and dead zones have been blamed for the communication problems that plagued the department for the last two decades, say police and city officials.
Officers spoke out again about the communication failures in spring and the council made a decision to take action in April. City Manager Nick Villano said he received approval to hire an independent consultant who was tasked with determining whether the city should stick with its towers or switch to the statewide P-25 system.
The process took months.
The consultant, Rich Touroonjian of Allegiant Wireless, recommended the city join New Jersey Interoperable Communications System, also known as P-25, which uses communications systems located throughout the state.
"We tested it and it seems to work," Villano said. "The chief, some of the police brass - all seem to be in favor," Villano said.
After the city received state approval to join P-25 in early summer, officials worked with Motorola to choose the radios. A purchase order was placed on Sept. 27.
"Time is of the essence," a memo from Centurione to Villano reads. "It can take up to six months before the system is operational."
Even though the order for new radios has been placed, Villano said the solution takes time to implement, especially with a department as large as Clifton's.
Temporary safety measures have been put in place as officers await the new radios and system. Patrol vehicle GPS systems have been turned on to better track location of officers, who will also be allowed to use cellphones to communicate.
Failed calls
Early this year, Sgt. Joshin Smith experienced the radio failure when he came face to face with two wanted and fleeing theft suspects. He drew his gun and called for backup.
The police radio failed.
"I attempted to communicate with headquarters via my handset but they could not hear me," reads Smith's January police report.
After Smith's radio failed, he reached into his pocket for his cellphone and used it to notify Clifton police headquarters of his exact location in Kearny, where the police chase that had begun in Clifton came to a halt. A parent, who was there to pick up his child from an event at the nearby elementary school, "recognized the situation" and asked the officer if there was anything he could do to help.
"I instructed him to call 9-1-1," reads Smith's report of the incident. "Approximately 3 minutes later Kearny police units arrived to assist me," the officer wrote. The suspects were charged with aggravated assault with a weapon, assault on police, fleeing and a number of drug offenses.
It was not an isolated incident, say Clifton officers. Since Smith's Jan. 16 incident, at least a dozen similar radio failure complaints have been recorded.
Taking action
Department of Labor and Workforce Development launched an investigation into the failed calls in April after it received complaints from officers. The investigation was concluded in July and on Aug. 22 the state issued an order to the city to resolve the radio concerns within 15 days.
Officers also filed a complaint with the Public Employees' Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA), citing unsafe working conditions.
The council's authorization for funds comes after months of experts examining the radio communications problem, the cost to fix it and the solutions.
The city has a few well known dead zones in spite of spaced-out towers, Villano said.
While in the city's Botany section during the summer, Villano said he witnessed two officers, about 100 yards apart, unable to communicate via radio. There was no doubt something had to be done, he said.
The city was able to place an order for the equipment with a pre-approved state contractor list, which expedited the process, officials said
The council approved the purchase last Tuesday.
"What’s most important is that the communication system is dependable most especially during police operations that are sensitive," said Mayor James Anzaldi.
NParkNJ
On the Road
“E” is coming for them.
I saw someone very high in the ranks over the weekend and we got into conversation over the radio situation there. He said “pretty soon no one will be able listen to us anymore(PD).” Don’t know about Fire/EMS, but count on PD.
I saw someone very high in the ranks over the weekend and we got into conversation over the radio situation there. He said “pretty soon no one will be able listen to us anymore(PD).” Don’t know about Fire/EMS, but count on PD.
W2MB
Member
Back in the day, we all knew that there was no such thing as 100% radio coverage with car radios, let alone handhelds. With all of the variables involving RF propagation, the expectation of 100% handheld radio coverage even with all of the new technology, in rural, suburban or city environments is just as unrealistic today. Salesman will continue to sell it though just as they did in the past.
That's probably been their goal all along, people cant listen they wont know about the problems in the new system or anything else going wrong.
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Wondering out loud.Speculation,unless someone can confirm. NJICS usable RF plot was likely designed built and tested to a spec for in street coverage not in building. Whereas that area has numerous terrain issues I suspect that certain structures in certain locations will have less coverage. If so, better have a good plan B for a major incident inside one of those buildings.
richee2000
Communications Professional
these issues are usually addressed with satellite receivers in these towns to accommodate portable in-building performance. any info on this in other towns using the NJICS?
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