Comtronics MotoTRBO

[OceanNora]

Hello all,
I've been monitoring the Comtronics MotoTRBO system on my 436 since the DMR upgrade beta came out. Has anyone else been having issues where it seems to display the wrong talkgroup? For example TGID 140 is Harbor Point Security and 137 is Winthrop Taxi Dispatch, at times I will be hearing transmissions that definitely correspond to 140 but the scanner is displaying TGID 137.

 

[garys]

I haven't had that, but today I noticed that Siren displayed the wrong site for an MSP talk group. F Patrol 1 should only show up on Zone 5, but it was displaying as Zone 4, with the Zone 4 control channel, but the Zone 5 voice channel.

Where I was when this happened, there is no way that I should be hearing Zone 4.

It's weird and I've checked to make sure I have all of the frequencies, zones, and talk groups are correct.

They might be related.

 

[OceanNora]

That's interesting, I know that Zone 1 and Zone 4 share a similar control channel so if it wasn't MSP but BFD or the MBTA Police crosspatched I could conceivably see it. It's fairly common for me that Boston city services pop up with Zone 4 being the site when in reality it's Zone 1. With regard to Comtronics, 140 is security at Harbor Point, but they contract out to Longwood so I'm not sure who owns the talkgroup. 100-104 (and I believe 105) are all Paul Revere TGIDs of various descriptions, let me know if you'd like them. Back on topic, the interesting bit is that it seems to carry over whether it's a TGID I've labeled in Sentinel or one that popped up during ID Search.

 

[garys]

Well, you've solved my mystery. It is in fact Zone 1, which shares 854.3635 with Zone 4. Why it's displaying a Zone 4 for that particular TG, I don't know. F Patrol 1 is on the MassPort trunk, Zone 5, and Zone 1. Why they did that, I don't know. I think what I'll do is set it to Avoid on Zone 1 and see if that clears up the confusion.

You don't happen to know who the ambulance company on Comtronics Site 1 is, do you? My suspicion is that it's Spaulding Rehab Hospital ambulance, but I'm not 100% sure. It's TG 250.

I'll take any TG information you have, thanks.

That's interesting, I know that Zone 1 and Zone 4 share a similar control channel so if it wasn't MSP but BFD or the MBTA Police crosspatched I could conceivably see it. It's fairly common for me that Boston city services pop up with Zone 4 being the site when in reality it's Zone 1. With regard to Comtronics, 140 is security at Harbor Point, but they contract out to Longwood so I'm not sure who owns the talkgroup. 100-104 (and I believe 105) are all Paul Revere TGIDs of various descriptions, let me know if you'd like them. Back on topic, the interesting bit is that it seems to carry over whether it's a TGID I've labeled in Sentinel or one that popped up during ID Search.

 

[OceanNora]

Based on what I've heard between unit numbers and locations, It's definitely Spaulding. I've heard Provincetown PD and FD on Zone 5 once in a blue moon, I'm not exactly sure why. For Comtronics, I have the following:
100: Paul Revere LMA Shuttle
101: Paul Revere Winthrop Busses
102: Paul Revere Logan Express Braintree
103: Paul Revere Logan Express Woburn
104: Paul Revere EZRide Shuttle (Those blue buses that run between Kendall and North Station)
358: Cape Cab
240: Patriot Taxi (Revere)
382: Boston Harbor Cruises Water Taxi (Rowes Wharf Water Taxi is actually 216 on the ICE MotoTRBO)

 

[garys]

Thanks.

We have Boston Harbor Cruises as 125 on Comtronics based on identification of one of the MV Brant Point. That was recently acquired by Boston Harbor Cruises.

Apparently both BHC and Rowes Wharf have exclusive franchises on some piers. Which is what I based the identification of 382 on.

It might need more investigation.

Thanks for the confirmation of Spaulding.

Based on what I've heard between unit numbers and locations, It's definitely Spaulding. I've heard Provincetown PD and FD on Zone 5 once in a blue moon, I'm not exactly sure why. For Comtronics, I have the following:
100: Paul Revere LMA Shuttle
101: Paul Revere Winthrop Busses
102: Paul Revere Logan Express Braintree
103: Paul Revere Logan Express Woburn
104: Paul Revere EZRide Shuttle (Those blue buses that run between Kendall and North Station)
358: Cape Cab
240: Patriot Taxi (Revere)
382: Boston Harbor Cruises Water Taxi (Rowes Wharf Water Taxi is actually 216 on the ICE MotoTRBO)

 

[OceanNora]

I have several BHC TGs on Comtronics based on vessel name and locations, I'm not sure about their exact functions. 128 was talking about the Hull Ferry and talking to ticket office, 131 was discussing locating a lost item on a boat, with an admonishment about not talking on the talkbox channel but rather the taxi channel. A user on 128 discussed switching to the "Managers' Channel," which turned about to be 126.

 

[garys]

You are a font of information!

I have several BHC TGs on Comtronics based on vessel name and locations, I'm not sure about their exact functions. 128 was talking about the Hull Ferry and talking to ticket office, 131 was discussing locating a lost item on a boat, with an admonishment about not talking on the talkbox channel but rather the taxi channel. A user on 128 discussed switching to the "Managers' Channel," which turned about to be 126.

 

[OceanNora]

Thanks, we're very fortunate in MA to have a really on the ball community so when DMR came out for the Unidens I figured I'd give back. I'm struggling a bit to understand one of All-Comm's one frequency systems, if anyone has any experience with them I'd be really appreciative for some insight.

 

[garys]

There's an active DMR/MotoTrbo/SDR group over at scan-ne.net. You might find an answer to your question there. I know that one of the All Comm analog sites has gone dark and the frequencies are now digital, but other than that, I can't tell you.

Thanks, we're very fortunate in MA to have a really on the ball community so when DMR came out for the Unidens I figured I'd give back. I'm struggling a bit to understand one of All-Comm's one frequency systems, if anyone has any experience with them I'd be really appreciative for some insight.

 

[cg]

All-Comm UHF sites are part of the OneVoice Con+ network now.

chris

 

[OceanNora]

That's interesting, I saw that all of the All-Comm frequencies were in the database here as part of OneVoice. My question relates to what I'm fairly certain is a one-frequency system at 462.1000 with a CC of 8. The 436 seems to not be able to keep up with TGIDs so that when a transmission from another talkgroup immediately follows, the screen doesn't update with the new talkgroup or UID. It also seems to make frequent use of iCall, and I don't fully understand how to imput TGIDs for that.

 

[cg]

For other trunking, you would use i0 for a wildcard to hear any ICALL. That is entered as .0 on the keyboard. Not sure if you can monitor ICALL on DMR

As for the 462.1000 channel, are you getting any indication of mode? Cap+, Con +? if the talkgroups are changing that quick, I would suspect some kind of trunking and you are missing some part of it.
Other frequencies in that license, WPMV418, are:
452.1750
463.8750
464.4000

chris

 

[OceanNora]

It shows DMR, it has TG:5000 for Yellow Taxi mobiles, 1616777215 for Yellow Taxi base, and TG:17 for a Spanish-speaking taxi/livery service operating in Chelsea/Revere (possibly Ventura or C&M Taxi). The Yellow Taxi TGs seem to use timeslot 1 while TG17 uses timeslot 2. I meant to say private call, my apologies. It doesn't appear that I'm missing transmissions, an example of my issue would be when the taxi base would say something and a taxi mobile would reply, and the talkgroup and UID would stay the same even though it was clear through listening that it was a different radio.

 

[cg]

I suspect you have a typo for that long RID as it is too high a number for MotoTrbo. 16777215 is one of several reserved RIDs and is used for "All Radios" I believe.
Taxicabs using private calls to give out assignments makes sense as they often radio setups to prevent other cabs from overhearing assignments.
I wouldn't be surprised if the system administrator can reserve one frequency/slot for private calls to prevent too many private calls from locking up a system.
In your photo, it looks like RID 5000 is talking to RID 5009 in a private call. When the other person responds back, I would expect to see the RIDs swap location.

If you monitor the other three channels I posted and see that same TGID (17), you can be confident it is a multi channel system.

chris

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

I have seen taxis setup so the taxi base is on the broadcast talkgroup and each taxi does an unit to unit call back to base. i5000 is likely the taxi base. You can tell by noting the id of the radio using the broadcast talkgroup, likely 5000.

The two taxi companies are likely setup as conventional on that one frequency. The setup of timeslot one suggests that Yellow Cab is the only user of that timeslot.

73 Eric

 

[OceanNora]

Thanks for the help, guys. As Eric suggests, it does seem to be one frequency as I monitored the other frequencies CG suggested for 3 hours without hearing a thing. It still throws up that ungodly long TGID fairly often when the base is transmitting and it still appears to be slow in updating the TGID and UID. Does anyone have some insight as to why it might do that or whether inputting it as a conventional frequency rather than a one-frequency system would be best?

 

[cg]

I found the following in a Motorola Power Point presentation. It essentially confirms what Eric about it being a single channel system.
All Call - TGID 16777215:
• All Call is a one way voice communication
between a privileged radio with other radio
users within the same logical channel.
• The transmitting radio uses a special All
Call group that enables every radio user
within the same logical channel,
(regardless of Group) to receive the
communication.
• This feature is particularly useful when a
supervisor needs to communicate to all
radios within the same logical channel
(frequency and timeslot) rather than
individual groups or users.

chris

 

[OceanNora]

Thanks, that makes sense considering it would pop up when the dispatcher made comments along the lines of, "anyone down by xxxx?" I only wish there was a way in Sentinal to program in a conventional DMR channel with timeslot rather than set it up with a one-frequency, as I feel that would be much more aesthetically pleasing than the jumble of private calls and talkgroups. Yellow is definitely only on slot 1 and the other Spanish-speaking Chelsea taxi/livery service only uses slot 2.

 

[garys]

I just noticed one of these on ICE Site 7 (Foxboro). I'm using DSD+, not a scanner. It shows a 167xxxxxxx TGID. In DSD+, it's identified as a "Emergency Group Call" and colored red. I missed the audio, so I don't know who it was or what the traffic was about. I'll try to listen for a bit and see there are more. From the traffic I'm seeing, a guess is that it's AAA dispatch.

Comtronics uses more "I Call" type traffic with unit to unit traffic. That seems to use individual UIDs and seems to be used for traffic that the dispatcher doesn't want other mobiles to hear for some reason. Most of it seems to by by the school van/special needs transport companies.

I found the following in a Motorola Power Point presentation. It essentially confirms what Eric about it being a single channel system.
All Call - TGID 16777215:
• All Call is a one way voice communication
between a privileged radio with other radio
users within the same logical channel.
• The transmitting radio uses a special All
Call group that enables every radio user
within the same logical channel,
(regardless of Group) to receive the
communication.
• This feature is particularly useful when a
supervisor needs to communicate to all
radios within the same logical channel
(frequency and timeslot) rather than
individual groups or users.

chris