Consultant needed to review our system and move us to P25 Phase II

[officerdave]

Looking for experiences folks on here , might have had with LMR System design consultants. We need a review of our current system, find issues with coverage etc. and then recommend how to upgrade to a Phase II P25 Citywide system. I know of Federal but not many others . Hopefully someone on here has used a solid consultant and can give us some ideas . thanks as always

 

[PACNWDude]

Phase 2 P25 would include TDMA digital and a common air interface. This can be very manufacturer dependent. That being said, go with whomever your current system is made by. If you are using Motorola, contact Motorola Solutions for an engineered solution. If Kenwood/EF Johnson/Tait/Zetron, I would recommend reaching out to that conglomerate. Harris, contact Harris Communications. P25 standardization is a starting point, with each manufacturer placing their own spin on the product line to lock you into a vendor/manufacturer base. Whomever maintains your current system could probably provide the next step of guidance.

 

[PVPD730]

Tusa Consulting has been good to us. Public Safety Radio Communications Solutions | Tusa Consulting Services

They're a little on the pricey side, but worth it.

 

[officerdave]

Tusa Consulting has been good to us. Public Safety Radio Communications Solutions | Tusa Consulting Services

They're a little on the pricey side, but worth it.

Thanks I have no dog in this hunt, but was asked if I had any consultant referrals. Our current supplier I assume, is putting together a system, but I would guess the City needs some " outside" input.

 

[buddrousa]

My question is did the current supplier build your current system and did it meet or exceed what was bid?

 

[mmckenna]

...but I would guess the City needs some " outside" input.

They do.
For small systems, using the manufacturer or vendor can work fine. But if it's a large system, using them can create a lot of issues.
-Purchasing rules may not allow the consultant to bid on the project.
-A vendor is likely going to recommend one brand, which can violate purchasing rules.

If the current system was spec'd/installed by the vendor you plan on using, that can be a problem. They may avoid taking responsibility for any issues.

While a consultant can initially be costly, they often pay for themselves as a non-biased third party that can make decisions based on exactly what you need, not which equipment a vendor is pushed to sell. A consultant can make recommendations that bridge different manufacturers.

I'm currently using a consultant to design a 3 channel multisite system for our PD. It's a lot of money but it's a complex project. He comes with a lot of experience and a lot of tools I don't have. A good consultant will have propagation mapping tools with high accuracy clutter maps that will save you a lot of trial and error.

I'd check with your purchasing department and see what the rules are. Some will let things slide, some will really toe the line. Considering it's taxpayer money that is being spent, there should be some oversight that makes sure that one vendor doesn't get to monopolize things.

 

[TampaTyron]

I work for a large manufacturer (but have worked for dealers and end users as well over the last 25 years). On the systems I have worked, "Tusa" and "Lockard and White" both have been able to set the expectations with the customer and hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire (and all the sub contractors as well). Good luck! TT

 

[Reelfishguy]

Make make that the consultant understands they are working for you and not the manufacturer

 

[TampaTyron]

A big thing I see quite a bit is the vendor will schedule coverage testing in the winter/spring time when there is little Foliage on the trees. This makes the system seem much better than testing during summer when most Foliage is on the trees. Foliage has a significant impact on coverage, especially at 7/800. TT

 

[speedway_navigator]

MCC|RRI

RadioResource Media Group, www.rrmediagroup.com, is a news and information resource for the mission critical and commercial wireless communications industries. The website provides daily news and useful content on technology and trends in the public safety, critical infrastructure and enterprise...

www.rrmediagroup.com

Mission critical magazine usually has a top 20 consultants listing every year or 2.
Most of the consultants will advertise in there if you can't find the list in a back issue.

 

[MTS2000des]

A big thing I see quite a bit is the vendor will schedule coverage testing in the winter/spring time when there is little Foliage on the trees. This makes the system seem much better than testing during summer when most Foliage is on the trees. Foliage has a significant impact on coverage, especially at 7/800. TT

Ask me how I know. We did coverage ATP in October. In April, areas that passed would later fail. Vendor was supposed to come back for a round two. Because it wasn't in the SOW, it never got completed as vendor stated "sure, we'll be glad to do a post project new order". Get EVERYTHING you want in your SOW. EVERYTHING. and do NOT sign off until EVERYTHING is completed. Vendor will get ghost when you sign on the dotted line.

 

[speedway_navigator]

I worked with a PE who used a vendor whose equipment had some design flaws and was a source of problems for the county and radio shop. They finally said they were going to sue the mfg so said PE reimbursed them to protect the vendor.
Those are the types of things that don't show up in court records making it hard to perform due diligence on consultants.

 

[mmckenna]

Those are the types of things that don't show up in court records making it hard to perform due diligence on consultants.

That's good stuff.

I put work into making sure the consultant I'm using was not into brand loyalty. Last thing we needed was someone who just regurgitated brand specific sales info.

 

[im800mhz]

Televate, Black and Veatch, V-COMM, SPARLING are some of my fav's

 

[N4DES]

We have used, and still have under contract, Omnicom Consulting Group. Omnicom Consulting Group, Inc. (ocg-usa.com)

 

[Tech21]

Mission Critical Partners.

 

[djwise]

Where are you located? Some consultants are regional.

 

[fredva]

Our county had a bad experience years ago when they didn't use a consultant and let the two competing companies offer bids based on their own internally-developed requirements. The lowest bidder won the contract proposing one less tower than the competition. Guess what the coverage was like when the system went online? For the next radio upgrade, the county hired an independent consultant which set the requirements.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Our county had a bad experience years ago when they didn't use a consultant and let the two competing companies offer bids based on their own internally-developed requirements. The lowest bidder won the contract proposing one less tower than the competition. Guess what the coverage was like when the system went online? For the next radio upgrade, the county hired an independent consultant which set the requirements.

Reminds me of the story of Abilene, TX. Harris wanted to use the existing towers from the EDACs system and said "it should" cover. Motorola wanted to build three new freestanders in more optimum locations (completely independent of the existing EDACs system) to provide total coverage. City went with the lowest bidder (the one who didn't want to build new towers)...and a few years later ended up having to build a 4th tower to make up coverage gaps. There are still a few minor gaps IIRC.