Cost of building trunking site.

[sraider]

Hello

I have some question on cost of building a wide area trunking site. Our local grain cooperative has a 170 ft tower. Where they have a analog repeater, there are six others that also have repeaters their also. We are all members of the grain cooperative so they charge us a minimal price to be on their also. So there is 7 analog non trunking repeaters that are connected with combiners and mixers (not sure if that is the right term) and we share tx and rx antennas for the whole system. The repeaters are in the 450 - 470 range. The antennas,cables mixers and combiners are approximately 20 years old. Repeaters vary from need to be upgraded to will work fine with narrowband.

A motorola radio shop wants to put up a wide area 450 mhz digital repeater setup their. They want to expand their area. They want to start from scratch on the antenna system. It sounds like we might be able to hook up our existing repeaters into his antenna system, but he was promoting his system. For some of the guys that need new repeaters and some new radios probably the way to go, but some of use that are already narrowband a little tougher question. If we switched radios and signed up to use his repeater the price he quoted us to get a slot on his repeater system seemed high, but maybe this stuff is that expensive. He actually had 2 plans, per radio/month or a one time slot fee with a yearly maintance fee. The slot fee was not a dedicated channel just for you, it was all shared channels. And if we wanted to get on the wide area there was a seperate fee for this also. So my question is what does it approximately cost to setup wide area trunking system, (antennas cables repeaters). I don't know what equipment he is using but he said it was a control channel system. For most of us the wide area capability is not really any value to us. Also what do other companies charge to rent a slot or rent per radio/month?

Thanks

 

[mmckenna]

I built a new 800MHz trunked last year, 5 channels. The site used to have a Motorola SmartNet system from 1993, and I replaced it with a Kenwood NexEdge system.

The system built back in 1994 was a bit above $500,000.00

The Kenwood NexEdge system was about $300,000 including a larger battery back up. We reused the existing roof top tower (about 30 feet tall) and 2 runs of 150 foot 1 5/8" Heliax. We installed new antennas last year, everything but the feedline and tower was replaced.

One thing to consider is that if you are going from 7 separate repeaters to a trunked system, you won't need a 7 channel system. You'd need to do some figuring on the number of users on the system, but I've got about 350 radios on my system. That's a 5 channel system that consists of a single control channel and 4 voice paths. We never peak above 30% capacity usage. You might find that you could get away with 3 or 4 channels.
If you went with a MotoTrbo system, you could get by with 2 frequencies as that would give you 4 time slots. The only caution there is that when you lose one repeater to a failure, you've lost 2 time slots.

It may look cheaper to go with the radio shops system, but make sure you figure in the radios that you'll need to work on the new system. The dealer will sell you those at a profit and they'll require programming for access to their system.

Also, if your coop is allowing the radio shop to install a system on the coop's tower, you should be getting a fair amount of income for that. We get about $1500/month for our cell site leases. You could either charge the shop for using the tower, or trade for services.

 

[sraider]

Wow I didn't realize it was that expensive. This site would be just an addition to their other sites for the wide area network, so I'm guessing they would not have that much into it, or would they? So what makes it so expensive? Don't you use trunking repeaters and a controller? I know what repeaters cost but is the controller really expensive, I suppose the combiners ( I think that's what is called) aren't cheap also.

They were looking at 4 voice paths, The only issue is busy signals. Spring and fall they get used hard, There are alot of times having a busy signal would be unacceptable when working with heavy equipment. That's why everybody went to their own repeater instead of just just useing multiple tones.

We are in a rural area so I don't know how much rent would be fair. I guess I would like to see the radio shop takeover the antenna system and we hook up to their system with our repeaters. But not sure if they would go for that.

 

[gtaman]

The controllers can be expensive and don't forget you'll need the radios which can run up 1000$ also you can always have more voice channels than 4 I'd go for 5 to have a spare. Or maybe even six these systems can be very costly look at the public safety ones they run easily 25 million. You could also try an LTR trunked system radios are cheap most kenwood a do it. The only issu is they can be sometimes unreliable as they tend to be sluggish.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, here is some pricing info:

NXR-900 repeater $4000 each. We have 6, 5 in service and a spare.
System manager trunking software, $400
repeater trunking feature $1500 each x 6
80 watt amplifier $2000 each, x 6, 5 running and a spare
Programming software and spare software keys, $500 or so.
Antennas, 10dB gain 3 degree down tilt, $1200 each.
DC power system, 8 hour battery back up, about $20,000
Monitoring system, $2000
Cisco 2960 network switch to link repeaters, $750
Inverter to power Cisco switch, $625 plus a spare = $1250

There is probably another several thousand in miscellaneous jumpers, connectors, wire, etc.
Installation labor, $10,000 or so

That doesn't include programming 350 new portable and mobile radios.
We also had to integrate the system into our 911 dispatch center, that wasn't cheap either...

 

[mmckenna]

They need a full system at the site, it would have to be survivable and work when isolated from the rest of the system.

Rural area or not, they want to put their system on your tower for a good reason. You have a valuable asset, and they know they can't afford to do it cheaper. Getting the approvals, alone, to build a new tower can be a lengthly and expensive process. A new 175 foot tower with the foundation, lighting, permits, delivery, construction will run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. A 175 tower is going to cover over 100 square miles. That's 100 square miles of subscribers that will be paying them every month for their services, not to mention the new radios, installation and maintenance.

Your coop is sitting on a goldmine, don't give it away in exchange for some free service. There are companies that specialize in appraising tower sites, it might be worth contacting one of them. They can tell you what the market price is for your facility. You'll probably be surprised.

Also, if they are going to put a trunked system on your tower, you probably won't want them to maintain your existing equipment. They would be in a position of conflicting interests. They ideally want you on their system, not you guys having your own equipment.

If you do go down the route of letting them use your tower, you need to make sure you have a rock solid contract in place that guarantees your rights and control over your assets. Letting someone else on your tower opens up all kinds of risks, not only to your equipment and tower, but legal issues regrading damage, injury, death. The sites we lease out have very extensive contracts that protect us. One of the issues that comes up is damage to the site and access roads. Access roads to the location can take a beating, and shared financial responsibility for the upkeep of the facilities needs to be in writing.

Your coop is in a good position, don't let this opportunity pass and don't give away a valuable asset.

 

[RKG]

In addition to all other issues, you have to consider licensing. In general, a coordinator is unlikely to agree to converting a conventional channel to a trunking system voice or data channel unless you are so rural as to have effectively "clear channels" (i.e., no co-channel licensees within 100 miles).

The data channel transmits continuously, 24/7, and thus completely occupies its frequency. Ditto a secondary control channel. And users have no way of monitoring voice channels before keying, which means that using a shared channel as a trunked voice channel guarantees inter-licensee interference.

 

[quarterwave]

I would look at aggregating the licenses to an FB6 under an "organization" or "coop" for radios, and putting in an LTR system. Then, you have the same number of "channels" in use, but could actually make room for more users that could help defray costs to the original members. You can then also build a smaller extension to the system somewhere else, and setup roaming for more coverage. I'm sure someone here knows more about LTR than me, I never dealt with it professionally, but I have learned from the radio guys I used to work with years ago, and they have one locally that is doing well on UHF. I know places in our state there are 20 channel, multi-site, UHF and VHF systems going strong...new ones.

 

[RKG]

Last week, the National Public Safety Telecommunications Council (NPSTC) published an extensive report relating to the Congressionally mandated migration of Sub-Part L ("T-Band") licensees to new systems. Included in Appendix B is some material that the OP might find enlightening. For a new, "small" trunked system (5 channels), the Report estimates "system" costs of $1.4 million (about $100,000 of which, by my estimation) would not be required for the OP's proposed system. In addition to "system" costs, Appendix B gives estimates for "site", "repeater", "subscriber" and "other" costs.

I believe a pdf of the Report is available at NPSTC Home.

Trunking is expensive.

 

[mmckenna]

$1.4m is a lot, unless it's P25. If it's Motorola, expect $1.4m until the change orders start rolling in, then double it.