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Creating/Renting a national radio system

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Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
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I would like to know about the cost without licencing as I think that I could use nonprofit status and publicity to get licencing fees waived

Tapatalk

Not referring to frequency licensing but manufacturer's software/hardware licensing. Likely won't be able to get out of that one.

Wouldn't I want p25 phase 2 instead of 1?

Tapatalk

Honestly, it really depends on how many resources you would like to have per site and what you can get spectrum for. In terms of subscriber and infrastructure costs, Phase 1 is far less expensive but if you are in a bind for spectrum Phase 2 well out weights the cost increase unless you are piecing together a system from parts to upgrade later as you go along.
 

zues2054

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Licensing aside, I think a Tier III DMR would be difficult to handle practically (I will speak the pros and cons of the Tier III systems I have physically worked with). The only two Tier III systems I have worked with are Motorola's Capacity Max and Simoco's Xd.

Motorola's system appears to be fairly stable and getting support is as easy as calling Motorola during typical business hours and a recent upgrade allows for FB2's to be utilized instead of only FB8's. Plus, there are several current repeater solutions ranging from the SLR1000 to SLR5700 and SLR8000. The downside, the infrastructure required in addition to the repeaters consists of two CMSS's in the form of two full sized HP servers (rack mount) and a RM Server in the form of a desktop HP tower. Each "site" has to have IP access to these two devices (if using Motorola subs, you can only utilize the RM Server to program them and therefore have to have IP access to that just to provision radios onto the system…for any Tier III system). The CMSS's must be in place and accessible for any wide-area trunking functionality (otherwise you are stuck in site trunking).

With Simoco's system, the repeaters contain all of the local and wide-area trunking logic. So they serve in the roll of trunking controller (like the Motorola repeaters) and zone controller (the function of Motorola's CMSS). You don't have a dedicated core with this setup (actually what makes it different form most other Tier III setups) and the system only need IP connectivity to other sites to function. It can also handle full-duplex calling but that's a proprietary feature to Simoco. The downsides are that if you have a break in your IP link somewhere you can have multiple zone controllers pop up (which will correct itself soon after the "big chief pow wow" after reconnection) and that if you call Simoco for support, it better be during business hours…in the UK.

The other issue you will have is a logistical nightmare with keeping frequency programming up to date (if you need to change channels at a deployment due to interference). This will also require someone with a tracking generator to tune your combiners or the use of lossy, hybrid combiners. This can also be quite a pain for reprogramming subscribers.

If it were me, I'd start out with single site, single channel Capacity Plus and simply gateway the talkgroups you need linked remotely. If you need additional capacity for trunking, you can add channels but will have to reprogram subscribers to allow the new channel to be utilized.
Project 25 MASTR; Have you successfully programmed any Motorola XPR Capacity Max radios to work on the Simoco Tier III Sites? I'm part of an 10 site Simoco XD Tier III Wide Area System and I have some Motorola radios that I would like to get to operate on it.
 

zues2054

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Thanks, I've played with it but I can't get it to work. We have programmed Hytera's to work and I would like to get the Motorola's working.
 

TampaTyron

Beep Boop, Beep Boop
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You would have to spin up an RM machine, add the radios to the RM database, create a new Cap Max system in Open Mode with all of the correct parameters (system ID, sites ,freqs, channel numbers, etc) program all of the subscribers in Open Mode for the system. Can you confirm that the Simoco is in fact in true Tier 3 (unlike Motorola Cap Max Advantage mode). TT
 

memtech3

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66
Thank you everyone for all of your advice. I found out about the GULFWIN radio network and believe my organisation fits the requirements to join LWIN (the network that started GULFWIN) This thread can be closed now
 

Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
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Texas
You would have to spin up an RM machine, add the radios to the RM database, create a new Cap Max system in Open Mode with all of the correct parameters (system ID, sites ,freqs, channel numbers, etc) program all of the subscribers in Open Mode for the system. Can you confirm that the Simoco is in fact in true Tier 3 (unlike Motorola Cap Max Advantage mode). TT

For refrence, yes all Simoco SDM/SDP 600/700 series DMR radios are Tier III capable. The Xd system is true Tier III as well. The only proprietary OTA function uses on Tier III is full duplex calls (uses two timeslots instead of one).
 

zues2054

Member
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Messages
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Location
Wisconsin
You would have to spin up an RM machine, add the radios to the RM database, create a new Cap Max system in Open Mode with all of the correct parameters (system ID, sites ,freqs, channel numbers, etc) program all of the subscribers in Open Mode for the system. Can you confirm that the Simoco is in fact in true Tier 3 (unlike Motorola Cap Max Advantage mode). TT
Thanks; Yes the Simoco is in true Tier 3. I'll take another look to see what I have tried so far.
 

C138NC

Tactical Taco Consumer
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I know this is an old threat but just for input I was trying to come up with the idea by linking local tow operators in a particular region and provide talkgroups to use especially during major storms, blizzard etc and we all work pile ups on the interstate together and we need a fast way to communicate between the companies instead of hollaring and everyone biting each other’s heads off.

So far my company is the first to use what I have set up right now but of course it would all be depended on the 4G LTE coverage if available as long towers stay up and running. Everyone team in their own talkgroups without all the extra infrastructure whether they use. Gateway connected radios or mobile app connection.

I wonder what the cost of the start up would be to create and set up a communications network.
 

TampaTyron

Beep Boop, Beep Boop
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The least expensive would be a Zello style app with password protected channels. The most expensive would setting up your own network with repeaters, licensing, tower sites, etc. A compromise would be finding a local two way radio shop that already has towers and coverage in the area and pay their monthly fee to join their network. TT
 

C138NC

Tactical Taco Consumer
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The least expensive would be a Zello style app with password protected channels. The most expensive would setting up your own network with repeaters, licensing, tower sites, etc. A compromise would be finding a local two way radio shop that already has towers and coverage in the area and pay their monthly fee to join their network. TT
Right

I’m just thinking with wave on cloud everyone could be under that
 

TampaTyron

Beep Boop, Beep Boop
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WOC would easily do that. The entire ecosystem allows computers, tablets, phones, radios, wifi, Nitro, etc to all be connected together. The issue is now getting a bunch of tow truck drivers to pay for it vs. Zello. In my experience they would choose the lower cost solution vs. The feature rich (more expensive) solution. TT
 
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