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cross band repeat

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jharpphoto

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I just installed a new yaesu FT 8900R rig in the car for mobile work. I also want to use the cross band repeat feature while camping etc.

1. I can't figure out how to configure the HT to x band repeat.

2. When I open the door to my car the power to the rig cuts off the rig.
How can I configure the mobile rig to remain powered on so I can use xband repeat over a weekend camping trip.

3. Won't leaving the rig powered up drain the battery?
 

krokus

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.973 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

The rig has to be powered from a constant power source, not accessory power. Most knowledgeable installers wire directly to the battery, fusing both leads.

Yes, using the system will put a drain on your battery. How much of a drain depends on how much transmit time and power you use. Hooking up a solar charging system can help keep you on the air longer, as can using a multiple battery system.
 

n8emr

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also note that using the cross band repeater on the 8900 does not meet FCC rules. there is no method to ID the the 440 link, only the outbound 2m link.
 

jaspence

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Crossband on amateur frequencies

Whatever you say on the HT is retransmitted on the other band by the rig in the car. This includes your ID, so there should be no problem with the FCC. Otherwise, crossbanding would not be legal.
 

AK9R

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Whatever you say on the HT is retransmitted on the other band by the rig in the car. This includes your ID, so there should be no problem with the FCC.
Let's say you set up your crossband radio to work a 2m frequency by using your handheld on 440. The 440 side of your crossbander listens for transmissions from your 440 handheld and retransmits what it hears back out on 2m. Assuming that you ID when you transmit with your handheld, your callsign then goes back out on 2m. This identifies your crossband transmitter on 2m.

Now, turn it around. Your crossbander listens on 2m and retransmits what it hears back out on 440 so you can hear the 2m conversation with your handheld. What means do you have to identify your crossband station with your callsign on 440? With most crossband repeaters, the answer is "none". All of those transmissions made on 440 by your crossband station are not identified with your callsign.

There are a few dual-band radios with crossband repeat that properly identify, but not many. I'm not saying that crossband repeat contravenes Part 97. But not properly identifying your transmitters is a violation of Part 97.
 

mrweather

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The legal issue is going the other way: from the FT-8900 on the 70CM link to your handheld. Kenwood sort of has addressed that issue on it's latest mobile radios by allowing the user to enter a CW ID that is transmitted at regular intervals in crossband repeat mode.

As far as the OP's other questions:

1) Depends on the radio. Generally, you set up the handheld on a simplex frequency on 70CM. It's good practice to have your 70CM link protected by a subaudible tone (CTCSS) to prevent unauthorized use, so you'll have to set that tone frequency on your handheld as well.

2) For some reason your radio has been wired to a switchable power feed. Bad idea. It should be wired directly to the battery.

3) Yes, you do run the risk of draining the battery if you use the crossband to long. One reason is the cooling fan on the 8900 will run continuously while in crossband repeat mode.
 

kc2rgw

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Many times you can hear the repeater on the HT, but it can't hear you very well.

In that case just 'half-duplex' with the mobile rig. Have it listen on 440 for your HT and repeat out on 2m. Then simply just listen to the 2m repeater output as the split on the HT on receive. This way your mobile isn't transmitting the whole time if the repeater is active.

This saves on battery drain a lot as well as the mobile will only be transmitting if you are.

Whatever you do, pick an appropriate input and output frequency that won't interfere with any existing repeaters on either input our output frequencies. Simplex allocations are _not_ o.k. for this, use link or experimental frequency ranges. Also enable an odd PL tone or better yet, use DCS as most repeaters and users don't use it. This ensures you aren't retransmitting for other people or retransmitting interference/intermod received without a tone.

This feature isn't meant to be left up as a cheap repeater either...please don't become one of the rogue 'links' that are being dumped all over simplex these days. This should be used in attended mode only.
 

stevelton

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Let's say you set up your crossband radio to work a 2m frequency by using your handheld on 440. The 440 side of your crossbander listens for transmissions from your 440 handheld and retransmits what it hears back out on 2m. Assuming that you ID when you transmit with your handheld, your callsign then goes back out on 2m. This identifies your crossband transmitter on 2m.

Now, turn it around. Your crossbander listens on 2m and retransmits what it hears back out on 440 so you can hear the 2m conversation with your handheld. What means do you have to identify your crossband station with your callsign on 440? With most crossband repeaters, the answer is "none". All of those transmissions made on 440 by your crossband station are not identified with your callsign.

Unless you have the 2 meter repeater's frequency programmed into your handheld as a simplex, or talk around frequency. Then, when you need to ID on the 440 side, on your HT you switch to the 2 meter talkaround frequency, Transmit your ID, which would then go over the x-band repeaters 440 side.
Steven
 

N5AMS

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whatever is transmitted over either side of the X repeat will go over it so if you tx your callsign then it would be legal right but the problem like said before is in the case that you are too far away from the X repeat is when it might not go out

Also note that it would be best not to go over 10 watts on either side of the radio so you dont burn up the radio i would recommend keeping both sides of the radio at 5 watts which is the lowest i think on most mobile or bas rigs i know it is on the ft8800 and the tmv71a
 

n8emr

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Whatever you say on the HT is retransmitted on the other band by the rig in the car. This includes your ID, so there should be no problem with the FCC. Otherwise, crossbanding would not be legal.

True but what about the transmitter from the mobile to your handheld. In a true cross band configuration you have 4 transmitters. Your and held transmitting on 440, Your mobile retransmitting the handheld on 2m, That you can easily identity with a simple voice ID. You also have the remote station on 2m that has to ID itself and you have your 440 mobile transmitter transmitting back to the handheld. HOW is that transmitter being ID'd?.
 

mjthomas59

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I know that everyone loves to get into the "how do you ID your repeater" debate. But as far as the OP is concerned, probably the first question that should have been asked is....

"What are you trying to accomplish with your 8900 doing cross-band repeat"???

Are you trying to setup something so you can hit another repeater, are you trying to expand your coverage area if your friends/family are camping nearby but too far away or over a hill for you to talk ht to ht.... If you want good answers on how to setup your 8900 and your HT that is the starting point.

As others have said, your 8900 is powering off because it is wired into an accessory outlet instead of directly to the battery. By doing it your current way you run the risk of getting spurious noises and background hum from the vehicle wiring, and you also can't run your 8900 without the ignition key being turned on. Most newer vehicles have a timer which allows your accessories to run i.e. fm radio, for a certain amount of time after the vehicle is turned off. Most GM vehicles will allow the radio to run after the key is turned off until you open the door, then it turns everything off. Either way this isn't ideal, and if you run your 8900 on high power it will likely burn up something in your vehicle, or burn itself up from having insufficient power.

As far as battery drain is concerned, the answer is yes, it will drain your battery. The question becomes how busy is the channel that is being repeated, and at what power level. Your 8900 set to 5 watts, running full-duplex, and with very light use might run all day in your car. Either way I wouldn't chance it being out in the woods camping on whether or not my vehicle will start. An easy way to preserve your battery is to put a voltage regulator in-line with your 8900 so that when the vehicle voltage reaches somewhere around 12 volts that the power is turned off. This should give you enough juice left in your battery to start your car. Otherwise carrying a jump-box would be a good idea. Solar power will prolong your running time but i've never seen a reasonably priced solar panel that will actually produce as much power as your 8900 can drain, so again it will prolong your use but eventually your battery will go down. You also run into the cloudy days, night-time use, etc where the solar panels are basically worthless.

Easiest way to setup your HT is to set it to 1 simplex frequency. Then program your 8900 to handle everything else. You can setup the 8900 to work on another repeater system with the right programming. And yes it will even do "odd-splits" as can be found in the owners manual. I have an 8800 and use it this way all the time with good results. As an example and for example purposes only:

My HT is programmed to 450.000tx 450.000 rx with a 79.7PL

My 8800 is programmed on the UHF side for 450.000tx 450.000 rx 79.7 PL

The VHF side is set to 145.000tx 148.000rx 79.7 PL

In my case i'm trying to hit a VHF repeater with input 145.000 79.7 and output of 148.000 79.7

Only thing to remember is you have to let your radio "drop-out" before you key-up, otherwise it will try and tx on the wrong channel, or won't tx at all. And you have to key up your HT a little longer because you are essentially keying up 2 repeaters instead of 1.


Good luck!
 

lbfd09

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A number of valued points made above...

1. When I have to make use of crossband repeat, I generally set the HT to a little used simplex frequency. Using a dpl on this frequency (if the radios in use are dpl capable) to reduce the likelihood of someone accidentally getting into the operation. The dpl's are seldom used in the area of ham radio, thus you are unlikely to get into an little used remote base.

The other side of the crossband is generally the repeater that is in your memory. Keeping in mind all of the cautions above. But if you are extending your transmissions from your own repeater that already has your call then the ID'er from the repeater would cover the "missing" ID.

2. & 3. One option for a powering such an operation is to make use of an isolated battery. One that is either completely independent of the car's electrical system with it's own charging source or one that is connected only when charging.

Some when camping or hunting will use a solar cell area on a battery.

Have fun....
 

mjthomas59

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That's an interesting split for the 2M band...

Exactly why I included in my original post "as an example and for example purposes only". Now the OP can go back, look at my "example" and insert whatever frequency pairs he needs, and then he knows how to program each unit.

As to the OP, do you have any updates on your project yet?

Thanks
 
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