Cross band repeaters ?

[k8zgw]

It seems as though some people, just because they have a radio that will do it, are “playing with “cross band repeaters”, usually what I see are 2 meters to 440…



I’m not even sure this is a good idea… Is there a “use case” for cross band repeaters ??



I would like to see some discussion on cross band repeaters ??



The ONLY plus I can see, no duplexer is required…





Don, K8ZGW

 

[tweiss3]

It's usually helpful for roaming around the house doing chores where the repeater a person wants to monitor isn't accessible by HT inside the house, but is with the cross band capable base radio/antenna. They can flip on the cross band repeater and still listen with an HT wherever they go in the house.

 

[K9KLC]

I have never "played with cross banding" but I have done it off and on as needed since 1995. In the photo below I'm going from a UHF Simplex frequency to a 220 repeater I am not able to work from an HT at home. Using this method, I only need to hit my base radio from the HT and the base does the rest. I can think of many more reasons but this is the current usage.

 

[sallen07]

The "use case" has already been given.

Think of a radio in cross-band repeat as a range extender for one's HT. I can put a mobile or base in cross-band repeat and walk around the house with an HT and still hear (or talk through) a repeater that is out of range of the HT.

Same thing can be done with a mobile in a vehicle. Put it in cross-band and you can get out of the car or truck and walk around with an HT but still use the power (and better antenna) of the mobile installation. That can come in handy (for example) if you are working an event and need to step out somewhere.

The big draw-back is that mobile and base radios are not designed for high duty cycles, so they can quickly heat up. For example, if I sit in my shack and join a net that lasts an hour long, I may only talk (transmit) for 2 or 3 minutes. But if I join that same net with a radio in cross-band it will be transmitting the entire time, even if on very low power. That can be hard on the radio.

 

[mmckenna]

The ONLY plus I can see, no duplexer is required…

This makes me think that you see it as a replacement for a standard repeater.

While it can certainly do that, most people seem to not use it that way. One issue is that these little radios won't take kindly to being in repeater service with long winded users. They'll quickly overheat. People that have been successful at this have cranked the way down on the power output, and still, they can have problems.

What I often see/read/hear is those using it as a simple "mobile extender", or a way to use a hand held radio with limited antenna to reach out to a bigger area. Generally this is a shorter term use case and they are not running this way long term.


Anyone that is going to run a real honest repeater that has links on multiple bands is probably going to do it correctly by linking two separate repeaters together.

 

[K4EET]

Hi @k8zgw! Like as has already been mentioned, I use the cross-band repeat function on a Yaesu FTM-500DR mobile/base transceiver with my HTs to access repeaters from inside the house that I could not reach otherwise. When I am in the hamshack, I do not use cross-band repeat since the Yaesu FTM-500DR can access the local repeaters using medium power (25 Watts). But when I am away from the hamshack rolling around the house in my wheelchair with an HT, the 5 Watts of transmit power is not enough to reliably access any repeaters. That is when I use cross-band repeat via the Yaesu FTM-500DR rig.

As to whether I do cross-band repeat from 146 MHz to 440 MHz or from 440 MHz to 146MHz, that depends on which repeater I am set up to operate on. If the repeater is in the 2 Meter band, you access the cross-band repeat rig on the 70 cm band. If the repeater is in the 70 cm band, you access the cross-band repeat rig on the 2 Meter band.

One final note on cross-band repeat operations. Be sure to operate according to your local frequency coordinator's band plan. I have noticed that different areas in the States use different segments of the amateur bands for low-power, inside antenna, cross-band repeat functions. I keep my HT on the lowest power possible (0.5 Watts) which is sufficient for operations within the house.

 

[nd5y]

Is there a “use case” for cross band repeaters ??
I would like to see some discussion on cross band repeaters ??

Icom: - 2730 cross band repeat in one direction only??

Ias it possible to program my Icom 2730 to only repeat in one direction?

forums.radioreference.com

If you search the forums for cross band repeat there are several other threads.

Sometimes the main use case is because the local/state/county law enforcement/fire/EMS has extenders or vehicular repeaters so of course whackers have to be just like them and have some type of vehicular repeater.

 

[K4EET]

<snip> The big draw-back is that mobile and base radios are not designed for high duty cycles, so they can quickly heat up. For example, if I sit in my shack and join a net that lasts an hour long, I may only talk (transmit) for 2 or 3 minutes. But if I join that same net with a radio in cross-band it will be transmitting the entire time, even if on very low power. That can be hard on the radio.

<snip> One issue is that these little radios won't take kindly to being in repeater service with long winded users. They'll quickly overheat. People that have been successful at this have cranked the way down on the power output, and still, they can have problems. <snip>

As @nd5y cited in Post #9 above, one-direction cross-band repeat solves the overheating issue. Refer to the referenced post for an Icom IC-2730, item #4, one-way crossband repeat where the user can receive the distant repeater. That is my case. My Yaesu FTM-500DR only transmits when my HT transmits. On receive at the HT, I hear the repeater's transmitted signal just fine.

 

[ecps92]

The "use case" has already been given.

Think of a radio in cross-band repeat as a range extender for one's HT. I can put a mobile or base in cross-band repeat and walk around the house with an HT and still hear (or talk through) a repeater that is out of range of the HT.

Same thing can be done with a mobile in a vehicle. Put it in cross-band and you can get out of the car or truck and walk around with an HT but still use the power (and better antenna) of the mobile installation. That can come in handy (for example) if you are working an event and need to step out somewhere.

The big draw-back is that mobile and base radios are not designed for high duty cycles, so they can quickly heat up. For example, if I sit in my shack and join a net that lasts an hour long, I may only talk (transmit) for 2 or 3 minutes. But if I join that same net with a radio in cross-band it will be transmitting the entire time, even if on very low power. That can be hard on the radio.

Also frequently called a Remote Base, since the user is transmitting NOT from the actual base but a handheld

 

[ladn]

I've used x-banding occasionally while 4Wheeling, I'll have a handheld on UHF back to my 4Runner's radio which is x-banded to VHF (either simplex or a repeater, depending on area and circumstances). Everything is usually set at 5W. Works well for walk-abouts when terrain limits handheld coverage to the rest of the group. Overheating has never been an issue since we don't talk much. I've configured my mobiles' power using an in-cabin switch to control a relay on the (direct to battery) radio circuit so I can have the radio "always on" with the vehicle locked and no key in the ignition.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I think a "Parrot" repeater is an easier and more useful alternative. It is rather cheap to construct and you are not limited to using dualband portables. You can even program the radio that you are using with a duplex pair or different in and out CTCSS and users will have no idea it is a parrot repeater.

 

[k6cpo]

I’m not even sure this is a good idea… Is there a “use case” for cross band repeaters ??

Don, K8ZGW

I'm in a REACT group that provides communications for events like bicycle rides, endurance runs, marathons and triathlons. We've used cross-band repeaters on numerous occasions to enhance our communications in areas that don't have good repeater or simplex coverage. It's been very helpful in maintaining communications in parts of the back country that are communications wastelands.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Crossband repeating can be handy...for certain applications. We used to see a lot of split site low band repeater that took two repeaters, typically UHF and low band, of the same model and simply swapped the receiver between the two. Thus, the low band receiver would "repeat" onto the UHF transmitter which would be received by the UHF receiver a few miles away and transmitted on low band by the low band transmitter. I've seen some 2m tactical repeaters that utilize a similar setup because amateurs don't get 5.25 MHz splits like we can option in the commercial world and utilize those small duplexers. I suppose if you were on a team where everyone had dual band radios, you could utilize a crossband repeater like a full blown repeater...

 

[krokus]

Similar to other posts, I have used it from a remote aid station, during a bicycle event. I could hear the repeater on my handheld, so I set my V71 for one-way, and used it to relay from 70cm simplex to 2m repeater.

 

[KF0NYL]

I use cross band repeat often when working around the yard. I can get into the local 2m repeater with a hand held but not very well. And there are plenty of other uses for cross band repeat as others have stated.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

There's a 1.25 meter repeater I can easily reach with the 40' antenna at my house, but I can't reach it at all with an HT or even mobile unless I go several miles north. However, I can easily reach the radio at my house with a mobile or HT on UHF up to several miles south of my home. I'm trying to get people to use that repeater more, and I monitor it most of the time, so when I'm not at home, I use the crossband feature on my base unit to monitor it. Essentially, I use crossband to give the 1.25m repeater more range.

 

[K9KLC]

@k8zgw Have you reached a conclusion about cross band repeating yet? Is it possible there "is" a use for it? Just curious.

 

[EAFrizzle]

Great thread, and I think it's well established that a crossband repeater cane be very useful.

I'll echo @K4EET 's suggestion to follow the local bandplan, with a small addendum. If you're going to be crossbanding for an extended period, you may consider occasionally announcing that you're doing that. People can go nuts trying to make contact on your output.