`Direct Burial' CAT5e cable

[Halfpint]

I've been thinking about replacing the RF links I currently have between the houses and other places on our farm where I either have computers setup or use laptops with something called `Direct Burial' CAT5e gel-fil cable. Has anyone here had any experience with using such a `critter'? The longest run I am expecting to make will be around 150ft-175ft whilst the shortest should be only between 45ft-75ft.

If you have had experience with this what has it been like. How long has it been `in service'? Have you had to provide and `special' `protection' because of any soil type related considerations? (Just a few things I am interested in.)

Another thing... Have any of you either used, or seen it used, as part of a CCTV `security camera' setup using CAT5 to Composite Video Baluns? If so how did it perform under that type of useage? (I am figuring that if I am going to be trenching in a run for my computers I just might also go ahead and trench in a run, or 2, for my cameras at the same time and get rid of my aerial lines and RF links for those, too. [Why bother having to bring in a `trencher' twice if I can get both setups at the same time? {GRIN!}])

 

[mmckenna]

We've used direct buried Cat 5 cable for a few installs at work, and if installed correctly, it'll do just fine. While you can directly bury it, you need to be careful how you do it. If you are in a cold climate you'll have issue. Rocky soil can damage it, and if it in an area that gets driven over, you'll shorten it's life if it's not deep enough. Best way to address this is to use conduit. While this will add a bit to the cost, it will give you a couple of benefits. It will increase the life span of your cable considerably, and will make it much easier to replace the cable if you ever need to. Once you figure in the cost of trenching and the cable, the cost of the conduit is minor. If you do install conduit, install bigger than you need. Again, price is minimal, and you'll have extra room to install additional cables if you ever need to. Pulling cable into larger conduit is also much easier than a smaller conduit.

As long as the outer jacket is in tact, your cable will last a long time. The gel fill can leak out if the jacket is compromised, and that can allow water intrusion. Water inside the jacket can eventually break down the insulation. Once the insulation is damage, the copper will corrode in short time.

Termination is easy, but you'll need to have the proper solvent to remove the gel. Check with the manufacture for the proper stuff, its usually a citrus based liquid. You will get this stuff on your tools, and you'll need to clean it off.

I've never used the video to twisted pair baluns, but they should work ok. You would be better off installing coaxial cable if you can. As some options, consider installing "siamese" cable that has coax and twisted pair for power. Other option would be to look at IP cameras that you can power over the cat 5 cable. They are getting really inexpensive.

 

[mikewazowski]

If you're running multiple cables or might want to add additional cables in the future, you might want to consider buried conduit.

 

[mmckenna]

Right, that's what I said above...

Also, consider running multiple conduits. One for your data circuits, a second one for any higher voltage stuff, and a third just because it's easy to do while the trench is open. Also see if you need water, gas, etc. The most expensive part of underground construction is the trenching. When the trench is open, that's the time to throw in conduit. If you ever need it later on, it's there, and cheaper than digging again.

Also, don't forget to call the underground utility guys. In this area it's done by calling 811, or Underground Service Alert
This is --really-- important. If you hit someone else's pipeline, utility, cable, etc, you are responsible for the cost of repair. If you contact whoever does the underground utility alerting (or your local utility) and get them to mark the services for you, that takes the responsibility off of you, as long as you hand dig around their stuff. If they don't mark it, and hit it, it's not your fault. This is a free service, and it can save you a huge amount of headaches, and maybe your life. Hitting a high voltage or gas line can kill you, and you probably don't want that. I know my wife would be pretty mad at me if I went and killed myself.

 

[fxdscon]

These are a little pricey, but considering the total cost of what has been discussed so far, Would these be a solution for you?


GhostBridge Wireless Ethernet Bridge - B&B Electronics


.

 

[n5ims]

A couple of comments/suggestions. I totally agree with putting anything you place underground into a conduit. It will protect your cable and make it much easier to replace later if you ever find a need to do so (adding additional cables will also be much easier to boot).

I would also recommend that instead of Cat-5e, you consider running fiber instead. There are maximum lengths that the various speed Ethernet runs will go and your long runs may easily exceed them (these max lengths include the total run, not just the length of the wire end-to-end - e.g. the wire + patch cables on each end + equivalent connector length + ... + ...). With fiber, the length isn't nearly as important since the effective fiber length to the Ethernet packets is nearly zero (minimal loss due to resistance, minimal crosstalk, minimal ...). There are Ethernet Fiber Media Converters available (TRENDnet TFC-1000MGB Fiber Converter - Newegg.com) so your normal routers and adapters can still be used. You'll end up with a more reliable (and often much faster) connection with fiber than if standard copper cable is used.

 

[mmckenna]

Yes, fiber would be good, but it's going to cost you more in the long run. You'll need to order the specific lengths you need, and you have to be very careful with the installation. You can't easily install connectors yourself, and if your equipment is in an area that isn't clean and well protected, you are going to have reliability issues. You also need to get cable designed to use outdoors/underground. You can't just pull in patch cords and plug them in. Water ingress will cause problems over the long term. Fiber is great stuff, but it's not for the do-it-yourself crowd. There are some plastic cables that are, but they are not going to work as well. Stick with copper unless you really need something more than 1 gig speed between points.

Higher speed is nice, but keep in mind that your internet access is going to be limited by the carrier. Adding a faster link between locations on your own property will not magically speed up your connection to the internet. If you are doing large file transfers between systems on your own network, then yes, it helps, but it doesn't sound like that is what you are trying to do.

Copper cable is going to be more reliable, cheaper, and easier to self install. You can easily run 1 gigabit over twisted pair.

As for length, 10baseT, 100baseT and 1000baseT is designed to have a 100 meter distance between hardware. You can go a bit beyond that, but not much. 90 meters is often used as the rule to allow 5 meters of patch cords on each end to connect your cable path to the equipment. If you need longer than that, look at Long Range Ethernet. It'll usually get you about 1200 feet between points, but will only give you about 10 megabits/second.

If all you are looking to do is set up a simple network and maybe run some cameras over it, then keep it simple. Simple is reliable, simple is easy to fix, simple works. Installing fiber, dealing with fiber transceivers, dealing with dirty connectors is just going to cause headaches unless you have previous experience with this stuff.

 

[Thayne]

I use the baluns and use 1 of my cat 5 cables for video between my shop & the house (3 cameras around shop & 1pair used as a return so I can watch what the DVR is recording, 16 Ch matrix) while I am out there. 4 cat5's are buried in a 3/4 PVC conduit. Total distance is 120 feet end to end.

Only small problem is when the AC compressor starts it causes a momentary herringbone pattern on the monitor. The power for it is buried only about 5 inches away from the Cat5 conduit, so I assume it picks it up. Good idea to keep cat 5's farther away from power even if buried.

 

[Halfpint]

Thanks for all the replies.

I was already including using some sort of conduit for running my cables because of the problems we've had with POTS and `critters'/`heaving soil'. (I used to run a multiline TBBS BBS and had, at the time, 4 phone lines for the BBS and one for `voice'. About every other year Ma Bell had to come out and run a new cable from the pad down at the end of our `lane' [Approx ¼ mile] up to the pad at our house. They were using one of those `knifelike' `trenchers' and running the line down the middle of the lane and with the weather and all the traffic, cars, pickups, ensilage trucks, tractors, ETC. the heaving/shifting soil would just eat right through the cable. After the fourth time they went and ran some heavy plastic pipe and *then* the phone. Since they did that we've only had to replace the cable twice between that, around 1999, and now. [I expect that we are going to be calling them sometime this summer as we are starting to have problems with our phones and our modem. {I shut the BBS down in 2004 but still use one of the modems to get onto the `net when the wireless broadband modem goes down.}])

As for using some sort of `wireless' connection... We already have all sorts of wireless stuff to deal with. 2.4Ghz gets chewed up by our microwave `zappers', I'm already using 802.11a (5.x Ghz?) `in house', and then there is the Davis wireless weather station and the assorted telemetery used around all the NatGas wells. I've got *more* than `enough?' RF already!

Finally... While I'd really like to have a cable directly from a camera to my `switch' / `DVR Switch' I really *do not* `relish' running all that cabling it would take. It's a lot easier to run cabling from the cameras at one building to a 4-port Balun and then through a single cable to the `switch'/`DVR switch'. That means I'll only basically have 3 cables to trench in instead of up to possibly 12. It also means that I can provide camera power at each individual `site' and not have to try and find a place to put multiple power supplies at one site.

Again... Like I said... Thanks for all the replies!

 

[MrAntsy]

...Termination is easy, but you'll need to have the proper solvent to remove the gel. Check with the manufacture for the proper stuff, its usually a citrus based liquid. You will get this stuff on your tools, and you'll need to clean it off...

I've used a heatgun to vaporize the gel from the wires in 50 and 100 pair cables after the jacket has been removed. It is the cleanest and easiest way I have found to do it. Just don't hold the heat on there so long that it melts the insulation.

 

[Halfpint]

I've used a heatgun to vaporize the gel from the wires in 50 and 100 pair cables after the jacket has been removed. It is the cleanest and easiest way I have found to do it. Just don't hold the heat on there so long that it melts the insulation.

Thanks! I just received delivery on the cable and decided to give your suggestion a try. Worked like a champ! (Took me a couple tries to find the setting and `concentrator', largest `hook' like one, for my heat gun and I can get rid of it with only a couple passes in and out and no insulation melting/crispying. Very interesting application of a heat gun!)

 

[KZ9G]

One thing to watch is that the buildings share a common power feed or not. I have a location that has two outbuildings that I support that just kept popping switches and router ports. The two outbuildings have one power feed and the house another. Same transformer and all. Anytime a good storm came through the switch in the buildings went poof. Checked grounds on all the buildings and all were good. Ended up running panel antennas and bridges for the links. Next step is fiber. It can be difficult to work with but pays off in the long run with less maint needed.

 

[Halfpint]

One thing to watch is that the buildings share a common power feed or not. I have a location that has two outbuildings that I support that just kept popping switches and router ports. The two outbuildings have one power feed and the house another. Same transformer and all. Anytime a good storm came through the switch in the buildings went poof. Checked grounds on all the buildings and all were good. Ended up running panel antennas and bridges for the links. Next step is fiber. It can be difficult to work with but pays off in the long run with less maint needed.

Hmmmmm... I wonder if using some ground loop isolaters might be a good idea?

 

[mmckenna]

You shouldn't need any ground loop isolators for this stuff. I work on a large university campus and we have thousands of data switches and quite a few locations that still have data services fed over underground copper. If you set things up correctly, this shouldn't be an issue. KZ9G sounds like he has some serious electrical issues at his location. That sort of failure indicates some serious issues that need to be addressed.