DMR is no replacement!

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minasha

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I would like to go a little further:
I have been listening to scanners before there were any scanners! only crystal controlled rotary selected
Vhf radios. I have had everything from those old Sonar radios right up to the Whistler 1080's.
I can say this: Analog radios are better performing than digital.
Digital transmissions suck plain and simple everyone thinks this new technology is so great but the reality
is many transmissions are garbled and at best very robotic sounding. Analog transmissions are clearer and much more reliable. However only the digital radios can be truly encrypted so now we have a situation where
actual audio quality went backwards to ensure security. The result is even PD and fire dispatch are going
encrypted in many areas. certainly encryption is necessary in sensitive areas and should remain encrypted but simple local dispatch really should be in the clear.
 

sibbley

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I can say this: Analog radios are better performing than digital.
Digital transmissions suck plain and simple everyone thinks this new technology is so great but the reality
is many transmissions are garbled and at best very robotic sounding. Analog transmissions are clearer and much more reliable.

I disagree. We went to digital at work and have had nothing but success. Comms are much clearer and more reliable. We work in a very noisy environment, and while on analog, voice was barely heard most times due to background noise. Constantly had to repeat ourselves. When originally testing digital, that noise was reduced greatly. We originally tested expensive Moto's, but bought cheap VHF MD-380''s. I have not heard voice sound robotic at all. Garbled voice is very minimal.

I also believe while scanning digital comms are received much better than analog with less noise and much clearer. This has been my experience anyway.
 

ShyFlyer

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Digital vs Analog depends on your operating environment. If your area of operations is relatively free of reception issues, then Digital wins hands down. I work for an agency that uses Digital and the voice quality is fantastic. Get in an area with less than desirable reception, and the user(s) are nearly impossible to understand.

Analog, on the other hand, wins in areas and situations where reception can be tricky. Even if reception is week, and there is a lot of static, the users stand a very good chance of understanding each other. For that reason alone, aviation voice will never go digital.
 

troymail

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I don't think DMR is being offered as a "replacement" for anything - it's just the next "thing" in scanning just as the first trunking scanners became available many years ago and then digital modes including P25.

There isn't much you can do about encryption ... it's even being used on DMR.
 

N4GIX

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If the Pentagon can be hacked, AES256 most likely already has been. It's just not well publicized, not yet anyway.

Here is an example of why even AES128 is considered "uncrackable" for any practical purposes:
If you assume:


  • Every person on the planet owns 10 computers.
  • There are 7 billion people on the planet.
  • Each of these computers can test 1 billion key combinations per second.
  • On average, you can crack the key after testing 50% of the possibilities.
Then the earth's population can crack one encryption key in 77,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years!
See: How secure is AES against brute force attacks? | EE Times

The math is clear... even with 128-bit AES, the cheapest and most reliable way to break the key is to use one of the two traditional methods - the three B's technique (bribery, burglary, blackmail) or rubber hose cryptoanalysis.
 

NC1

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Here is an example of why even AES128 is considered "uncrackable" for any practical purposes:

See: How secure is AES against brute force attacks? | EE Times

The math is clear... even with 128-bit AES, the cheapest and most reliable way to break the key is to use one of the two traditional methods - the three B's technique (bribery, burglary, blackmail) or rubber hose cryptoanalysis.

Hey, believe what you want. Don't let me shatter your world.
We are off topic.
Carry on.
 

N4GIX

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Hey, believe what you want. Don't let me shatter your world.
We are off topic.
Carry on.

Why yes, yes we are off topic, and you were the one who derailed it in post #10... :roll:

Regarding the OP's actual claim however, he's entirely mistaken if he thinks that Public Safety users aren't adopting DMR Tier 2 and/or Tier 3 as a much less expensive alternative to other digital modes.
 

N4GIX

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But yet you continue............. lol

Are you suffering from a RDD (reading deficiency disorder)? Note that I re-railed the topic in the second paragraph where I directly addressed one of the OP's points.

I suppose that we are fortunate here in NW Indiana as the Lake County Consolidated system is almost entirely non-encrypted and open for all to hear. Only a very few TGs of the local Hammond PD and Lake Co. Sherriff are encrypted.
 

newsphotog

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OP is a bunch of malarkey. Of all the new systems going into place in my region, most, if not all channels are in the clear.

Scanning is dead. Long live scanning! Right?
 

slicerwizard

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If it can be coded, then it can be cracked. It's a simple concept. Things are reverse-engineered all the time.
You can't reverse engineer an open standard - it's already laid out in full for your viewing enjoyment. You're conflating an open standard with security by obscurity. You're using flawed logic to prop up your baseless prediction.
 
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