APX E5 Head with 8500 & 7500 Dual Radio Restarting

[BlackSheepDue]

I have been struggling with this issue for awhile and can't seem to make any progress. When the E5 came out I upgraded both my 8500 and 7500 to E5 dash mounts. At the time I had them in a havis console as separate radios. I eventually swapped out the havis console and went back to my OEM console which meant less space. I figured the dual radio option the E5 offered would be perfect for me but ever since I went this route the radios will randomly restart every 15-30 minutes. Occasionally when they restart the screen displays "RC in progress" but not every time. Usually before they restart they become sluggish. What I mean is I can hit the swap button and it takes a few seconds or it just never swaps or I hit scan and it beeps but doesn't actually turn scan off etc...
I started with the minimum firmware that supported dual radio, R21 or R22 I believe. When my issues began I tried going up to R23 and ran that for awhile but the issues persisted so last week I went up to R24 but still I'm having the same issues. I checked and I am getting proper voltage everywhere. The truck is a 2019 F150 and it does have auto stop/start but I always turn that off. I use a charge guard which is powered directly off the battery and separate fuse panel which also powers a BCD536HP and Feniex light controller. Neither of these ever restart, loose power, or have any sort of issues. I have had apx's in this truck for 2-3 years and never had any issues until I went to a dual radio setup. The radios transmit fine and otherwise work well in between restarts.
I've tried everything I can think of so I welcome any and all ideas. I tried to include everything I thought was relevant in the paragraphs above but let me know if there's anything else you want/need to know.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Been running the same combo in my 2019 F150 with no issues (actually X2) . You flashed both 8500 and 7500 with same Firmware correct ? You need to do secondary radio via the deck normally. I do all my firmware via rear USB cables that are installed in the truck. After the firmware flash did the head take the new flash zap ? I have had both E5's installed since they came out with no issues after firmware was done on all 4 decks. Double check your code plugs also.

 

[a417]

. Occasionally when they restart the screen displays "RC in progress" but not every time. Usually before they restart they become sluggish.

1. is there a configuration or duty cycle that preceeds this issue? Or is there a set of circumstances that you can correlate to this issue?
2. You may have checked the voltage at the terminals, but do you have an oscilloscope or a DVM that allows you to check voltage over time? You may have an intermittent voltage drop that makes them go nuts. That could be a cast-iron ***** to try to troubleshoot... Something that can record over time might give you some better data.

 

[Tech21]

Can you PM the codeplugs for both radios?

Dual radio operation requires the O7 control head for proper operation.

Dual Radio Operation Feature
A Dual Radio configuration allows two APX™ Mobile radios to operate together with a single APX™ Control Head.

The two radios can be either the APX 7500 model radios, APX 6500 model radios, or the APX 8500 model radios, and the single Control Head must be an O7 Control Head. This unique configuration allows for different combinations of simultaneous Rx audio, simultaneous Tx audio and data, and simultaneous receive and transmit of audio and data.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Can you PM the codeplugs for both radios?

Dual radio operation requires the O7 control head for proper operation.

The E5 control head was built specifically for the dual deck setup. It along with the O7 both work for the dual deck. The E5 allows both radio channels up on the head at the same time where as the O7 just shows a dot in the screen when the secondary deck is talking.

 

[BlackSheepDue]

Been running the same combo in my 2019 F150 with no issues (actually X2) . You flashed both 8500 and 7500 with same Firmware correct ? You need to do secondary radio via the deck normally. I do all my firmware via rear USB cables that are installed in the truck. After the firmware flash did the head take the new flash zap ? I have had both E5's installed since they came out with no issues after firmware was done on all 4 decks. Double check your code plugs also.

Both radios have the same firmware and the firmware updates were done with the rear usb cable. Primary and secondary radio is set in the CPS. Do you have each brick connected directly to the head separately or do you have the 2 heads connected together and the 1 cable from the primary to the head?

 

[BlackSheepDue]

1. is there a configuration or duty cycle that preceeds this issue? Or is there a set of circumstances that you can correlate to this issue?
2. You may have checked the voltage at the terminals, but do you have an oscilloscope or a DVM that allows you to check voltage over time? You may have an intermittent voltage drop that makes them go nuts. That could be a cast-iron ***** to try to troubleshoot... Something that can record over time might give you some better data.

1. There doesn't seem to be a particular set of circumstances that trigger the restart. As far as I can tell it's random
2. I don't have anything that I could use to check the voltage overtime. I would think if it was a voltage drop that, that would effect the scanner as well. The auto stop/start always made the scanner restart but it never restarts when the APX's do.

 

[BlackSheepDue]

Can you PM the codeplugs for both radios?

Dual radio operation requires the O7 control head for proper operation.

Dual Radio Operation Feature
A Dual Radio configuration allows two APX™ Mobile radios to operate together with a single APX™ Control Head.

The two radios can be either the APX 7500 model radios, APX 6500 model radios, or the APX 8500 model radios, and the single Control Head must be an O7 Control Head. This unique configuration allows for different combinations of simultaneous Rx audio, simultaneous Tx audio and data, and simultaneous receive and transmit of audio and data.

The E5 and O7 both support dual head radio operation. Are you thinking of the O5?

Edit: sorry I didn't see that someone else had already replied before I did.

 

[a417]

1. There doesn't seem to be a particular set of circumstances that trigger the restart. As far as I can tell it's random
2. I don't have anything that I could use to check the voltage overtime. I would think if it was a voltage drop that, that would effect the scanner as well. The auto stop/start always made the scanner restart but it never restarts when the APX's do.

I've always noticed that the moto stuff we deployed seemed to be more sensitive to voltage changes than other hardware. Perfect case in point was all the CDM mobiles would freeze and then start to ignore the IGN sense lines (and stay on, killin the battery faster...heh) when the chassis voltages dropped below 11...and the battle tested BCT-8s that were mounted right next to them would work just fine until the voltage got down to <9v.

I sent you a PM, btw.

 

[Tech21]

Here is the last manual I found for this, it's 8 years old at this point but should help.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/content/dam/msi/docs/en-xu/astro_25/apx_mobile_dual-radio_o7_control_head_system_instruction_manual.pdf

Also, update to 26.03. That is the most current firmware and stable release.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Both radios have the same firmware and the firmware updates were done with the rear usb cable. Primary and secondary radio is set in the CPS. Do you have each brick connected directly to the head separately or do you have the 2 heads connected together and the 1 cable from the primary to the head?

Decks are cabled deck to deck with the 12" jumper. Single cable to each head. Also checked with some friends running similar setups and they have not seen this issues. All my decks are at 26.03 as of last week in RM.

 

[BlackSheepDue]

Decks are cabled deck to deck with the 12" jumper. Single cable to each head. Also checked with some friends running similar setups and they have not seen this issues. All my decks are at 26.03 as of last week in RM.

Alright maybe that’s what I’m doing wrong, I have both connected directly to the head. I ordered a new cable to connect the decks so we’ll see what happens

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Head plugged into the primary deck TIB, then from the primary deck to the secondary deck with another blue data cable. It does not have to be their special cable, any of them will do.

 

[mikewazowski]

The E5 and O7 both support dual head radio operation. Are you thinking of the O5?

Edit: sorry I didn't see that someone else had already replied before I did.

I found reference to the dual radio setup in the O9 manual so it looks like it supports it as well.

 

[jeepsandradios]

O9 does not work on the dual radio. I wish it did. Only heads that support dual deck is the O7 and E5.

As said any cable from deck to deck will work but the short 12" one makes a cleaner install.

Just did the dual deck in my personal vehicle and other than loosing the O3 have not had an issue on that one either.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

I do not understand motorola's thinking on this. God forbid the giant head with the giant screen that takes up the entire console be able to control more than one radio.

Oh and how about the XTL5000 dual drawer which was the W3 HHCH but nope, cant do an O3 on either that or an APX. Makes no sense the way they limit dual drawer operation to specific heads. Give me a SWAP button on anything and lets just go from there, even if I cant see the display or any info on the other drawer.

 

[gesucks]

O9 does not work on the dual radio. I wish it did. Only heads that support dual deck is the O7 and E5.

As said any cable from deck to deck will work but the short 12" one makes a cleaner install.

Just did the dual deck in my personal vehicle and other than loosing the O3 have not had an issue on that one either.

The O2 works as well

 

[snoopyII]

We kinda went off the rails here ya'll. Here is the official MTN addressing this issue. Its not a control head problem. I have heard some reports of this being fixed by R24.01, others saying not so much, the problem still exists in R25.01. Seems to be luck of the draw, I've owned 3 dual APX dual set ups of various configurations, all with E5's and have never seen this issue myself. If the problem still persists after firmware upgrades, I'd say its probably going to need a trip to the depot.

 

[BlackSheepDue]

Unfortunately connecting the two bricks and only running 1 cable to the head did not solve my random restarting problem

 

[BlackSheepDue]

We kinda went off the rails here ya'll. Here is the official MTN addressing this issue. Its not a control head problem. I have heard some reports of this being fixed by R24.01, others saying not so much, the problem still exists in R25.01. Seems to be luck of the draw, I've owned 3 dual APX dual set ups of various configurations, all with E5's and have never seen this issue myself. If the problem still persists after firmware upgrades, I'd say its probably going to need a trip to the depot.

So it’s fixable by depot? The document attached just says upgrading to at least R24.01 is the fix but I already did upgrade to R24.01. I could go to R25 or R26 but doesn’t seem like that would make a difference.

Also I assume because the 7500 is no longer supported even if there is a fix they would only fix the 8500?