I did hear that before about the leaves, but that was in the past 2 years when they were supposed to have this operational. Wonder why they keep announcing this 3/31 completion date when they know leaves don't even come out till April? Guess I can save more wear and tear on my 436/536 scanners for another month or so.......
Erie County P25 System
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I did hear that before about the leaves, but that was in the past 2 years when they were supposed to have this operational. Wonder why they keep announcing this 3/31 completion date when they know leaves don't even come out till April? Guess I can save more wear and tear on my 436/536 scanners for another month or so.......
Unfortunately, Erie County is no different than countless other agencies who have built out one of these systems. They are always naively optimistic about "go live" dates, only to wind up running into countless delays that push everything back months or even years. It's very rare that a system like this meets its target timeline goals, as everything has to go exactly as planned. And of course the timeline has to be realistic from the outset, which is also often not the case.
I'm hearing control channels on my BC780 of 453.05 and 460.125.
Also seeing signals on tg1 and tg2
There will be an article in the times news soon about the law enforcement encrypting. I also see that Alert Erie Facebook page says they will shutdown their site when the county goes digital.
Do you know if any police agencies will not be encrypted?
I’m getting the impression all police will be encrypted! ☹️
That's unbelievable! At the public meetings they said it would be up to each agency. Guess they all jumped on the bandwagon at once. Big mistake taking away community involvement and oversight. The TV station news depts. will hate it too.
Hope some of them will consider what Akron PD is doing. They are encrypted, but they provide their own open feed onlne, just delayed by about 10 minutes. That would be fine for here too. We can only hope, I guess.
Don't say I didn't warn you folks months ago. Every hobbyist has been in such a damn hurry for this new system to go live. Why I ask? Just so we have less things to monitor. Granted, I understand from a first responder point of things, the anticipation for the new system to go live will be welcomed. ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies in Erie County have the portables and mobiles with encryption boards installed. Fire and Medical do not.
We will now be like what Cleveland was for decades. Cleveland had an 800 MHz. VSELP system that was not monitorable from a scanner. You did have the option to purchase a Motorola Astro Saber 800 MHz. radio (the radio the City was using, which back in the day cost several thousands of dollars, so it wasn't really affordable or worth it to the casual scanner hobbyist) with the VSELP VOCON and have the City program a "media" template which gave you receive only access to police and fire DISPATCH channels only, and it required a permit, not to mention, the City had the ability to stun/kill/deafilliate the radio at any time. Furthermore, Cleveland local media stations had Astro Sabers at their desks to monitor the local action as well. After the system aged over 20 years - far surpassing its end of life, parts becoming harder to find, support dropped by Motorola, and continuous almost daily system failures, they recently deployed a new Countywide System a few years back; P25 and monitorable.
Cleveland PD and Buffalo PD both have P25 systems, they have higher crime rates than Erie County, PA does, and yet their systems are monitorable. Pittsburgh PD, although analog at the present time - is also in the clear. Certain tactical operations for Cleveland and Buffalo are encrypted, but that is all. Now I'm sure someone will come on here and tell me that those cities had "tighter budgets" and couldn't afford encryption or find some excuse to want to rant about officer safety or otherwise, however, that isn't necessarily true. Being in public safety and having a law enforcement background, not to mention a background of an emergency dispatcher, I don't feel COMPLETE encryption is the way to go. If officers need to relay sensitive information, or a dispatcher wants to relay sensitive information, go to an encrypted channel.
As for the media, they may be supplied with receive only radios. But I guess at the end of the day, some of the "hotshot" calls will still be heard over the analog pager and P25 fire/medical frequencies anyway (shooting, stabbing, crashes, etc). The local media phones the 911 Center every day a few hours before they go live to inquire about "anything going on" (anything of interest or news-worthy that is). So, even if the media doesn't get radios, they will call the County as they've been doing for the past several years and get information that way. Sure, they won't be able to send a crew out into the field anytime they hear a "hot" police call, but they will still be able to monitor fire without issues.
Your taxpayer dollars at work. Forgive me for saying this, but I hope the system fails - just like the 911 Center did time and time again when it first took over radio dispatch duties in 2008. I'm not the only first responder who feels the same way, several other responders in the County do as well and aren't looking forward to this new system, when in a sense, what we have already works.
Erie PD is going to be the big agency to feel the burn. There isn't going to be anymore "holding the air". All officers will go to a tactical channel on hot incidents, no longer tying up a dispatch channel like they currently do now. Take a listen to Erie PD on a busy weekend, radio traffic is pretty much non-stop and units usually walking over each other. It's only going to take a few officers keying up their radios and getting a "busy" signal before some start having a fit. As an ex-dispatcher for Erie PD, I know.
Hopefully everyone enjoys the last of what they can get, because the end of scanning is near. And with this system having a 20 year support contract, by the time 20 years is up, I'm sure two-way radio (in public safety) will be a thing of the past and communications will be on LTE systems or the like (i.e. FirstNet), completely unmonitorable - just like your cellphones are today. The days of scanning public safety traffic are pretty much nearing the end.
PS: I highly doubt a delayed online stream will go live. I can only hope I'm wrong, but again, as I said months ago, they went encrypted for a reason. Because complete open communications was more of a hindrance than it was worth. You can also thank the online streaming audio over the years for helping to push this forward for agencies nationwide. Every Joe Blow can download an app on his/her phone and listen to the police or whatever. It's not hard anymore. Before, there was a slight learning curve on having to program all the frequencies into a scanner that cost a couple hundred bucks, and to some whom had intentions of committing a crime, it wasn't really worth it.
That's the end of my rant. My opinions are obviously that of my own. You may agree or disagree, and that's fine. I'm not here to start an argument, but what can I say? I'm sure I'll strike someones nerve with this post.
We will now be like what Cleveland was for decades. Cleveland had an 800 MHz. VSELP system that was not monitorable from a scanner. You did have the option to purchase a Motorola Astro Saber 800 MHz. radio (the radio the City was using, which back in the day cost several thousands of dollars, so it wasn't really affordable or worth it to the casual scanner hobbyist) with the VSELP VOCON and have the City program a "media" template which gave you receive only access to police and fire DISPATCH channels only, and it required a permit, not to mention, the City had the ability to stun/kill/deafilliate the radio at any time. Furthermore, Cleveland local media stations had Astro Sabers at their desks to monitor the local action as well. After the system aged over 20 years - far surpassing its end of life, parts becoming harder to find, support dropped by Motorola, and continuous almost daily system failures, they recently deployed a new Countywide System a few years back; P25 and monitorable.
Cleveland PD and Buffalo PD both have P25 systems, they have higher crime rates than Erie County, PA does, and yet their systems are monitorable. Pittsburgh PD, although analog at the present time - is also in the clear. Certain tactical operations for Cleveland and Buffalo are encrypted, but that is all. Now I'm sure someone will come on here and tell me that those cities had "tighter budgets" and couldn't afford encryption or find some excuse to want to rant about officer safety or otherwise, however, that isn't necessarily true. Being in public safety and having a law enforcement background, not to mention a background of an emergency dispatcher, I don't feel COMPLETE encryption is the way to go. If officers need to relay sensitive information, or a dispatcher wants to relay sensitive information, go to an encrypted channel.
As for the media, they may be supplied with receive only radios. But I guess at the end of the day, some of the "hotshot" calls will still be heard over the analog pager and P25 fire/medical frequencies anyway (shooting, stabbing, crashes, etc). The local media phones the 911 Center every day a few hours before they go live to inquire about "anything going on" (anything of interest or news-worthy that is). So, even if the media doesn't get radios, they will call the County as they've been doing for the past several years and get information that way. Sure, they won't be able to send a crew out into the field anytime they hear a "hot" police call, but they will still be able to monitor fire without issues.
Your taxpayer dollars at work. Forgive me for saying this, but I hope the system fails - just like the 911 Center did time and time again when it first took over radio dispatch duties in 2008. I'm not the only first responder who feels the same way, several other responders in the County do as well and aren't looking forward to this new system, when in a sense, what we have already works.
Erie PD is going to be the big agency to feel the burn. There isn't going to be anymore "holding the air". All officers will go to a tactical channel on hot incidents, no longer tying up a dispatch channel like they currently do now. Take a listen to Erie PD on a busy weekend, radio traffic is pretty much non-stop and units usually walking over each other. It's only going to take a few officers keying up their radios and getting a "busy" signal before some start having a fit. As an ex-dispatcher for Erie PD, I know.
Hopefully everyone enjoys the last of what they can get, because the end of scanning is near. And with this system having a 20 year support contract, by the time 20 years is up, I'm sure two-way radio (in public safety) will be a thing of the past and communications will be on LTE systems or the like (i.e. FirstNet), completely unmonitorable - just like your cellphones are today. The days of scanning public safety traffic are pretty much nearing the end.
PS: I highly doubt a delayed online stream will go live. I can only hope I'm wrong, but again, as I said months ago, they went encrypted for a reason. Because complete open communications was more of a hindrance than it was worth. You can also thank the online streaming audio over the years for helping to push this forward for agencies nationwide. Every Joe Blow can download an app on his/her phone and listen to the police or whatever. It's not hard anymore. Before, there was a slight learning curve on having to program all the frequencies into a scanner that cost a couple hundred bucks, and to some whom had intentions of committing a crime, it wasn't really worth it.
That's the end of my rant. My opinions are obviously that of my own. You may agree or disagree, and that's fine. I'm not here to start an argument, but what can I say? I'm sure I'll strike someones nerve with this post.
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Thanks for your insight. I agree totally.
Law enforcement saw an opportunity to go encrypted and jumped on the band wagon, personally I thought that they could have broadcast dispatch channels and moved operations to encrypted channels for more detailed information. Possibly EMS will do the same in the future to keep info from going public, a lot of personel stuff goes on there!
It doesnt make sense that some big cities with all their crime can go unencrypted and little Erie thinks they need it. Same with our little police depts. here in the county.
I don't know if the media will be offered receiving equipment in the future but in communications with Lou Baxter with Wjet, he was asking me for suggestions for radios for their news room that would receive the new system, and said at the time that law enforcement would be encrypted!
I will still be rebroadcasting whatever is not encrypted on my "Erie County Police and Fire" audio stream although I may have to eliminate the POLICE part! ha...ha
It doesnt make sense that some big cities with all their crime can go unencrypted and little Erie thinks they need it. Same with our little police depts. here in the county.
I don't know if the media will be offered receiving equipment in the future but in communications with Lou Baxter with Wjet, he was asking me for suggestions for radios for their news room that would receive the new system, and said at the time that law enforcement would be encrypted!
I will still be rebroadcasting whatever is not encrypted on my "Erie County Police and Fire" audio stream although I may have to eliminate the POLICE part! ha...ha
There is already a thriving Facebook group recently started that details for fire and ems response , just like back in the days of Mayberry people are watching and taking pictures and broadcasting what police/fire/ems are doing, where they are going how many units excetra ,if Public service wanted discrete low profile they have screwed it up ,people have already assumed the "watcher position" recording photographing and documenting , once the radio fall silent simple FOIA submissions will couple the recorded with what the agencies say happened in digest ,this is going to make cops less safe because the watchers and auditors are going to flock to scenes, and dare I say not everyone is going to a positive presence, there will be violent malconten individuals and every officer ,will be scrutizized ,and at disadvatage since erie does not use body cams and think there uneccsary, several people make similar claims about officers conduct is going to cause career problems ,in the past we have had corrupt IAB officers who file 13 everything , when you have encrypted radios ,lack of body cams ,and a very dubious suspicious public , situations are going to escalate,since many officers are no longer taught verbal judo and descalation techiniques as the national trend of cops provoke and inflaming conflict ,i sure hope we dont lose to many due to there inahility to conduct themselves in a proffesional manner or to solve conflict by something short of murder.
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Two articles in today. Very interesting. Makes a very good case for not encrypting, but it's being met by deaf ears. Very good comments by Terryho.
Looks like Millcreek is an exception. Keeping their current dispatch center and not joining the new system for PD, only Fire/EMS like it is now. Also noted it says the system will now be operational in the 2nd quarter, not 3/31. Here we go again!
Erie County police to encrypt radio communications
FAQ: Erie County's Next Generation Public Safety Radio System
One more article about Las Vegas PD:
Scanner played key role in newspapers coverage of Las Vegas mass shooting
I think collectively we have to accept a certain amount of responsibility, or blame, for the decision. I remember seeing drug dealers on 18th St with scanners in their pocket but the days of leaving Radio Shack with a scanner and batteries and listening to the police on the way home are over. Today the limited availability and relative complex set up of new scanners seems to prevent that. Now all you have to do is download an app on your phone and someone will provide the live feed. I feel we would not be in this situation if we were content to enjoy the radio traffic and keep it to ourselves rather than spread it all over the cyber world. Perhaps a little to much interest in the new system may have also played a part in it.
There may have been some interest elsewhere in this system, but at the few public meetings they had, it was basically me and a couple others, along with 95% fire/pd people. I do think the phone app situation did play a part for sure, but that's just progress. But we did have like almost 60 years of the good ole days (speaking for myself!).
I applaud Millcreek Township Police for not falling for and believing all the hype to migrate into the County. For years, there has been nothing but pushback from them wanting anything to do with the County, and you can still tell today. I was a dispatcher part time a few years ago for Millcreek PD, and unlike the County, MPD uses a "common sense" approach to dispatching. Listen to their radio traffic sometime, it doesn't sound like a robot following a policy book to the "t" like Erie County. Very efficient and productive; each dispatcher has their own personality and way of doing things on the air. There's a difference knowing the officers personally than sitting at a remote location in the County not knowing probably any of the officers you interface with on a daily basis via phone and radio. Should something major happen at the 911 Center, like a communications failure or outage occur, most all agencies that are dispatched by the county will be in the dark, because everyone believes in "consolidation". It will be the agencies outside of the 911 Center who will still be able to coordinate, like Millcreek PD.
Has anyone ever heard how backlogged the county gets when a big storm comes through and they get piled with calls for dispatch. They go into "Level 1" mode, only emergency radio traffic is processed. The 911 Center can very easily become overwhelmed and overloaded. After working there for five years, I witnessed it and would know.
John Grappy clearly doesn't understand the technical side of things when it comes to this new radio system. According to the Times-News article: "Grappy also said that it won’t be possible to remove encryption for law enforcement in the future if one or all the departments wanted to. " Encryption can easily be removed for one or all agencies. It's called assigning a talkgroup that doesn't have encryption enabled. Just because they purchased radios with encryption doesn't mean that the radios can only transmit encrypted. Obviously they will have common talkgroups that they will be able to communicate with fire and medical - such as for an ICS incident, where fire and medical do not have the encrypted radios.
I still have recordings of Erie PD on several discs from before Erie County took over dispatch, and what a difference. It was actually enjoyable to listen to a scanner then, as opposed to now with the County. Again, each dispatcher had their own personality, their own flavor of dispatching, and there was more lineancy and some mild joking around on the air. I still have the master tape from 2008 of the last night Erie PD was dispatching, when all the in-house dispatchers said "farewell" to the officers, and in addition, the first transmissions from Erie County when they took over Erie PD and the days following. It sounded like a nightmare. Officers expressing safety issues on air and technical issues such as the repeater locking up for minutes on end because the control link from the County to the repeater kept dropping. I still recall on one of my tapes hearing an officer say "I think they self destructed up there" after one episode of that happening. Several officers calling Erie County dispatch with no answer at all. Officers started transmitting with one another and coordinating with themselves before they fixed the link - which was about seven minutes later.
I'm sure as some of you can tell, I'm not a big propent and don't have confidence in our County's 911 Center, nor do I agree with the idea of consolidation. If it wasn't for money issues, East County and West County Emergency Dispatch would still be on the air.
As for myself, I've had eleven years experience in the scanning and amateur radio hobby.
Has anyone ever heard how backlogged the county gets when a big storm comes through and they get piled with calls for dispatch. They go into "Level 1" mode, only emergency radio traffic is processed. The 911 Center can very easily become overwhelmed and overloaded. After working there for five years, I witnessed it and would know.
John Grappy clearly doesn't understand the technical side of things when it comes to this new radio system. According to the Times-News article: "Grappy also said that it won’t be possible to remove encryption for law enforcement in the future if one or all the departments wanted to. " Encryption can easily be removed for one or all agencies. It's called assigning a talkgroup that doesn't have encryption enabled. Just because they purchased radios with encryption doesn't mean that the radios can only transmit encrypted. Obviously they will have common talkgroups that they will be able to communicate with fire and medical - such as for an ICS incident, where fire and medical do not have the encrypted radios.
I still have recordings of Erie PD on several discs from before Erie County took over dispatch, and what a difference. It was actually enjoyable to listen to a scanner then, as opposed to now with the County. Again, each dispatcher had their own personality, their own flavor of dispatching, and there was more lineancy and some mild joking around on the air. I still have the master tape from 2008 of the last night Erie PD was dispatching, when all the in-house dispatchers said "farewell" to the officers, and in addition, the first transmissions from Erie County when they took over Erie PD and the days following. It sounded like a nightmare. Officers expressing safety issues on air and technical issues such as the repeater locking up for minutes on end because the control link from the County to the repeater kept dropping. I still recall on one of my tapes hearing an officer say "I think they self destructed up there" after one episode of that happening. Several officers calling Erie County dispatch with no answer at all. Officers started transmitting with one another and coordinating with themselves before they fixed the link - which was about seven minutes later.
I'm sure as some of you can tell, I'm not a big propent and don't have confidence in our County's 911 Center, nor do I agree with the idea of consolidation. If it wasn't for money issues, East County and West County Emergency Dispatch would still be on the air.
As for myself, I've had eleven years experience in the scanning and amateur radio hobby.
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MarkPalmer
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Well, at least Millcreek won't be encrypted, but front page news today states all other county law enforcement agencies will be. This system has been nothing but one tax-payer funded sucker punch right after another.
...and Kathy Dahlkemper is touting over and over that it was her and her administration that got this project going when it failed so many times before. John Grappy isn't any better either.
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