F-4400 DS Ham band?

[tunnelmot]

Good morning ya'll.

Are there any "typical" tricks to get an Icom 4400ds 450-512 into the ham bands? Just started playing with this radio and it is stellar at what I wanted it for (GMRS, Fire FM and NXDN monitoring), but I am curious if any of the "usual" tricks work for OOBing these units (hex editing/Kenwood style enter enter/etc). This is my first dive into modern Icom IDAS and this radio is pretty damn awesome.

 

[W0JOG]

Radios used legally in the amateur radio service have to be type accepted by the FCC. That is, reviewed and found to be in compliance with all the rules and regulations concerning the laws of the band. Somewhere on the case will be a notice of type acceptance. If it isn't there, you can be fined for using it on amateur radio frequencies to transmit.

de W0JOG

 

[popnokick]

There is no FCC type acceptance for radios used in the Part 97 service.

 

[W0JOG]

So it goes, I guess. once upon a time, we cared.

deW0JOG

 

[12dbsinad]

Cared about what? There was never any type acceptance on ham band. Besides, any part 90 approved radio will have much tighter spec than any 100 dollar hammy rig.

 

[W0JOG]

I see. In other words you don't "know" there is no type acceptance, you just assume it. Reason for such? Look it up.

de W0JOG

 

[MTS2000des]

Amateur transmitters have never required type acceptance, only the receiver portion has to comply with part 15 of the FCC rules. Look up any FCC ID on the OET site and that is the only grantee code you'll see on any commercially marketed amateur transceiver.

As licensees, we are solely responsible for the emissions from our station equipment. I am sure that is on every novice, technician, general, advanced and amateur extra question pools going back four decades or more.

It's what allows us to build, modify and experiment with our own "home grown" gear. Only when is a piece of equipment commercially sold (marketed to the public) does the receiver need to be part 15 certified.

 

[MTS2000des]

Back to the O/Ps question, unless Icom has changed their cloning software dramatically, the 450-512 split radios will accept out of band programming with no issue. Just enter the frequencies. I have high split 6061D, F4161s that go down to 441-449 just fine. Never tried them lower than that but I am sure the VCOs will unlock and receiver performance may suffer, but on the two 6061Ds I have, still getting .18uV for 12db and perfect NXDN decoding in the 440 band with them.

And yet get a "pink slip" for using them on the ham band!

 

[W0JOG]

Thank you for the lecture. I, however, go back farther than you do and "once upon a time," it was illegal to modify commercial equipment into amateur radio use. That was when the FCC had a lot more clout than in the past four decades or so. Building your own was then up to you for acceptance, but modifying commercially manufactured equipment to take it out of design was once against the rules.

Enough.

 

[mmckenna]

Good morning ya'll.

Are there any "typical" tricks to get an Icom 4400ds 450-512 into the ham bands? Just started playing with this radio and it is stellar at what I wanted it for (GMRS, Fire FM and NXDN monitoring), but I am curious if any of the "usual" tricks work for OOBing these units (hex editing/Kenwood style enter enter/etc). This is my first dive into modern Icom IDAS and this radio is pretty damn awesome.

Don't worry about the type acceptance thing. Hams have been using commercial gear for decades. Original FM repeaters were usually old GE machines that had been recrystaled/tuned for the ham band. Surplus WW2 military equipment was very common in the hobby, in fact, there's catalogs going back into the 1940's specifically selling surplus radio equipment to hams.

The issue with type acceptance is once you physically modify the radio, it loses it's type certification. Nothing wrong with doing that and using it on ham as ham transmitters do not require type certification. Putting it back on Part 90 after that would result in a technical violation as the type acceptance was voided when modified. Since you are not modifying the hardware, you don't have an issue here.

Nothing at all wrong with using the Icom on the amateur radio service. Most of us that work in the industry have ham frequencies in our radios. Nothing at all wrong with that.

And this is an excellent example of hams needing to continue their learning after the license is earned. Part 97 rules periodically get changed, and it's the amateurs responsibility to keep up to date with them. The Part 97 rules don't' freeze at the time of your license issue.

 

[mikewazowski]

Perhaps we can just answer the OP's question?

 

[tunnelmot]

Nothing at all wrong with using the Icom on the amateur radio service. Most of us that work in the industry have ham frequencies in our radios. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Yep. I run MOSTLY part 90 gear (in my Signature). I'm just new to this particular series of Icoms (these are the new iDAS radios with the color display. I was curious if anyone has figured out the OOB trick, or if band limits are hard locked in this series. I've hex edited most of my XPRs and modified Moto and Kenwood gear for 900 ham, but am totally virgin on this one.

 

[tunnelmot]

Back to the O/Ps question, unless Icom has changed their cloning software dramatically, the 450-512 split radios will accept out of band programming with no issue. Just enter the frequencies. I have high split 6061D, F4161s that go down to 441-449 just fine. Never tried them lower than that but I am sure the VCOs will unlock and receiver performance may suffer, but on the two 6061Ds I have, still getting .18uV for 12db and perfect NXDN decoding in the 440 band with them.

And yet get a "pink slip" for using them on the ham band!

Yeah I had hoped it would take the hammy freqs similar to Kenwood ( the double enter trick). After loading 446 simplex in a test zone, the radio's led status light flashes a fast green/red pattern so it doesn't like it. Just don't know if this will be a keyboard trick, a hex edit type thing, or forcing a different model number type situation. I've always wanted to play with this series of radios since they first released and I FINALLY struck a slamming deal on a 450-512 model I couldn't pass up. The in band stuff including NXDN is working like a champ.

 

[ecps92]

Exactly !

guess all the out-of-the-box folks never tried Home Built

Cared about what? There was never any type acceptance on ham band. Besides, any part 90 approved radio will have much tighter spec than any 100 dollar hammy rig.

 

[tunnelmot]

TLDR: still no luck

I have tried the double enter (Kenwood style) method.
I tried editing the lower edge frequencies in the adjust menu of the cloning software.
I even searched the codplug for plain-text frequency limits in Hex Editor.

Any more ideas? According to a Google search, I'm the first one trying to OOB one of these units as this thread is the only search result.

 

[12dbsinad]

TLDR: still no luck

I have tried the double enter (Kenwood style) method.
I tried editing the lower edge frequencies in the adjust menu of the cloning software.
I even searched the codplug for plain-text frequency limits in Hex Editor.

Any more ideas? According to a Google search, I'm the first one trying to OOB one of these units as this thread is the only search result.

Not that it really helps you with this particular radio but do you need the high split for your other stuff? Reason being is the make a 400-470 version that would solve your problems as long as you don't need T band.

 

[tunnelmot]

Not that it really helps you with this particular radio but do you need the high split for your other stuff? Reason being is the make a 400-470 version that would solve your problems as long as you don't need T band

Not really needed.

The only reason I ended up with the high split is I got this (demo) unit at an EXTREMELY OBSCENE LOW price w/all accessories in new condition.
I was ok with not being able to do hammy stuff with it, but it'd be cool if it did. And apparently I'd be the first to figure it out (according to Google anyway).

 

[70cutlass442]

Good morning ya'll.

Are there any "typical" tricks to get an Icom 4400ds 450-512 into the ham bands? Just started playing with this radio and it is stellar at what I wanted it for (GMRS, Fire FM and NXDN monitoring), but I am curious if any of the "usual" tricks work for OOBing these units (hex editing/Kenwood style enter enter/etc). This is my first dive into modern Icom IDAS and this radio is pretty damn awesome.

There is likely a license you will need to operate in wideband, but since your intended use is for NXDN, you should have no issues. Unlike Motorola lets say, there is no need to modify software to go "out of band".

I have a F7010 (same appearing radio, but P25) and have gone into ham with no issue.

 

[tunnelmot]

442...please elaborate. I believe you, but haven't found a way to dip into the ham band. I indeed see that the F7010 is built on the same chassis and probably share many hardware components.

The radio already has a wideband license (which I have tested) so I'm good as far as 25 khz bandwidth for analog.

Are you literally just entering the hammy stuff with no other intervention? Does the cloning software give a warning about model number etc? On my Kenwood upper split radios I get the warning prompt about frequencies being out of range, but I just hit ENTER again and they are accepted.

I can enter 44x.0 frequencies and dump them into the radio. However after re-boot and power up when I switch to those channels I get a rapid red/green flash on the led status light. Icom lists this status pattern as "programming error". No tx or rx. Then I switch to any of my 450 mhz and above channels and it acts as normal.

Keep in mind I have easily loaded out of band UHF ham stuff in older legacy Icom UHF gear with no issue.

 

[12dbsinad]

The F7010 is a VHF radio covering 136-174 so going into 2 meters is no problem. The OP has a high split radio on UHF (450-512) and is trying to dip it down to 440.