The majority of the road patrol units are patched at this time on 424.2500. Probably not too much longer before we lose FHPD on our scanners.
Farmington Hills Police / OpenSky
- Thread starter Jimmy252
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OsloViking1975
Member
Wonder if Southfield will be next. Maybe they will swing over to MPSCS.
I dont think they are going opensky, or at least they dont plan on it yet. But Novi Police are patched now...so they are going too 
OsloViking1975
Member
Well whoever is left hopefully they won't go to opensky.
Got some bad news for you....
Hey, Oslo Viking!!!
With the exception of Southfield, there really aren't any police departments or fire departments in Oakland County that won't be going to Open Sky.
While this has caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the scanner hobbyist community, the Open Sky system has already netted great results in terms of interoperability between the member agencies. There have been car / foot chases in Oakland County that ended successfully BECAUSE several departments were able to communicate in real-time, as opposed to various dispatch centers having to relay everything. This last is very inefficient and time consuming, the delay putting officers into what we call 'the fog of battle'.
I fully empathize with anyone who loses their hobby through no decision of their own. However, police departments have suffered for decades with communications systems that could not talk across borders to the neighboring agency. This is completely unacceptable. There are those in the scanner hobbyist community that keep screaming 'Open Sky is going to get someone killed!' Firstly, I'm not sure from what position of experience they are speaking, so that argument falls on its face. Secondly, the lack of communications between departments in a critical incident is far more likely to get a law enforcement officer killed than any single piece of radio equipment.
Interoperability will become more and more important as police departments shrink due to lay-offs. Officers from various departments who never had anything to do with each other, may now find they are relying on each other on an almost daily basis.
Some hobbyists have pointed to the fact that Southfield isn't going to the system as an indicator of how 'bad' the Open Sky system must be. Not so. Long before the roll out of Open Sky in Oakland County, Southfield was at a point with their old radio system where it was too expensive to keep maintaining it. So, they coughed up almost $2 million for their current radio system (that works really great for them). The end result is that (at least at this time) Southfield has no reason to dump their current system, especially since it is still relatively new (as public safety radio systems go).
Hey, Oslo Viking!!!
With the exception of Southfield, there really aren't any police departments or fire departments in Oakland County that won't be going to Open Sky.
While this has caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the scanner hobbyist community, the Open Sky system has already netted great results in terms of interoperability between the member agencies. There have been car / foot chases in Oakland County that ended successfully BECAUSE several departments were able to communicate in real-time, as opposed to various dispatch centers having to relay everything. This last is very inefficient and time consuming, the delay putting officers into what we call 'the fog of battle'.
I fully empathize with anyone who loses their hobby through no decision of their own. However, police departments have suffered for decades with communications systems that could not talk across borders to the neighboring agency. This is completely unacceptable. There are those in the scanner hobbyist community that keep screaming 'Open Sky is going to get someone killed!' Firstly, I'm not sure from what position of experience they are speaking, so that argument falls on its face. Secondly, the lack of communications between departments in a critical incident is far more likely to get a law enforcement officer killed than any single piece of radio equipment.
Interoperability will become more and more important as police departments shrink due to lay-offs. Officers from various departments who never had anything to do with each other, may now find they are relying on each other on an almost daily basis.
Some hobbyists have pointed to the fact that Southfield isn't going to the system as an indicator of how 'bad' the Open Sky system must be. Not so. Long before the roll out of Open Sky in Oakland County, Southfield was at a point with their old radio system where it was too expensive to keep maintaining it. So, they coughed up almost $2 million for their current radio system (that works really great for them). The end result is that (at least at this time) Southfield has no reason to dump their current system, especially since it is still relatively new (as public safety radio systems go).
RayAir
Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
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- 1,946
LOL!!!
You should apply to be White House Spokesman for Obama.
This system was and still is a waste of taxpayer money.
FYI- And no scanner hobbyist said Open Sky is going to get someone killed, a Waterford police officer did. Waterford police are on Open Sky.
Open get real
Open Sky is a poorly designed system that tens of millions of dollars are taking to support. As for communications among departments, all counties surrounding Oakland already have links using the MSPCS system. If Oakland County really (now be honest) wanted a system that could communicate with everyone else, why would they spend far more for an unproven dedicated system? No other county in the state has even close to the number of towers that have been erected or remain to be erected in Oakland County.
Look around the country, there are very few Open Sky systems (and most don't work well) and many large organizations that considered Open Sky realized that it is at best a one hit wonder and chose something better, more reliable, proven and cheaper!
I hope you are among the first to cough up all the additional funding it will take in a few years when Harris no longer supports the system and Oakland County will be forced to change again.
"The Emporer has No Clothes!"
Open Sky is a poorly designed system that tens of millions of dollars are taking to support. As for communications among departments, all counties surrounding Oakland already have links using the MSPCS system. If Oakland County really (now be honest) wanted a system that could communicate with everyone else, why would they spend far more for an unproven dedicated system? No other county in the state has even close to the number of towers that have been erected or remain to be erected in Oakland County.
Look around the country, there are very few Open Sky systems (and most don't work well) and many large organizations that considered Open Sky realized that it is at best a one hit wonder and chose something better, more reliable, proven and cheaper!
I hope you are among the first to cough up all the additional funding it will take in a few years when Harris no longer supports the system and Oakland County will be forced to change again.
"The Emporer has No Clothes!"
i agree, interoperability between departments shouldnt be Oakland's main standpoint...
Like you said, they already have MPSCS links, and most oakland county departments have to ability to talk with other departments as well.
Firstly, the Intercity freq VHF is still being used to talk amongst departments. As well as dispatch freqs themselves. i can speak on behalf of southfield and farmington hills, and both departments have eachother programmed on their radios for quick and easy sharing of info. Heard southfield come on and talk with FHPD dispatch on two different occasions last week, in fact.
And yes, with the amount of actual working OpenSky systems, probably less than 10, if that, Ma/Com Tyco probably wont support it in the future... It was not a smart move at all.
Like you said, they already have MPSCS links, and most oakland county departments have to ability to talk with other departments as well.
Firstly, the Intercity freq VHF is still being used to talk amongst departments. As well as dispatch freqs themselves. i can speak on behalf of southfield and farmington hills, and both departments have eachother programmed on their radios for quick and easy sharing of info. Heard southfield come on and talk with FHPD dispatch on two different occasions last week, in fact.
And yes, with the amount of actual working OpenSky systems, probably less than 10, if that, Ma/Com Tyco probably wont support it in the future... It was not a smart move at all.
I agree. Nothing like spending millions of dollars and a decade of time and effort for a "state of the art" system that is all but obsolete already.
Go right ahead and flame me. That's what people do when they have a difficult time refuting facts. Their arguments become far more emotional than rational, and turn more personal and vindictive.
"This system was and still is a waste of taxpayer money." Why? Again, it's far easier to throw out a statement like that than it is to actually provide a factual basis for it. Is it a 'waste' of taxpayers money because YOU can't scan it? Would you feel the same way if you COULD scan it? I somehow don't think you would. What do YOU know about how much this system costs, and how do you know it? Is your 'knowledge' based upon that same charge heard over and over again on these forums?
Police officers and firefighters are notorious for saying things such as, "This (fill in the blank) is going to get someone killed." I personally know one police officer who is VERY vocal against the Open Sky system. He's also the same one who was the most vocal against his OLD radio system. To date, I've yet to hear of ONE radio system anywhere that was considered to be the cause of an officer's death. Have you? Again, it is far easier to create a straw man argument than it is to come up with facts, isn't it? That's okay. It doesn't look like anyone here will be fact-checking your arguments, so you're safe!
Internet forums can be a great place to exchange information and ideas. Sadly, almost all of them denigrate into mud slinging and name calling. Your reply to my post reproves me. Thank you.
The cost of the system is well documented beyond this forum. Oh you were happy with the Oakland Press article weren't you that quoted the $45 million. By the way, that number has exceeded any that I've seen in this forum! And it has taken over a decade correct?
Bottom line, most other surrounding counties have quickly and with much less expense joined the MPSCS system. In addition, they have not added the number of towers that Oakland county has and still is.
Open Sky (is falling) remains a pipedream and has documented problems in any large area it has been tried. People reference New York State but PA has had problems and is documented in their state hearings.
Open Sky doesn't meet national guidelines which call for P25. And the fire service need a simple reliable communication system when they are deep inside a building with multiple interference issues.
Think about what $45 million could buy you and ask yourself would you really pay that much for an experimental system?
Check out the tried and reliable system in Palm Beach County or Pinellas County in Florida as just two very good examples of county wide common systems. Oh isn't that what the consultants recommended a decade ago for Oakland County?
Those are facts unlike your political face saving ramblings . . . . .
In Oakland County, the emporer has no clothes . . . . . .
Bottom line, most other surrounding counties have quickly and with much less expense joined the MPSCS system. In addition, they have not added the number of towers that Oakland county has and still is.
Open Sky (is falling) remains a pipedream and has documented problems in any large area it has been tried. People reference New York State but PA has had problems and is documented in their state hearings.
Open Sky doesn't meet national guidelines which call for P25. And the fire service need a simple reliable communication system when they are deep inside a building with multiple interference issues.
Think about what $45 million could buy you and ask yourself would you really pay that much for an experimental system?
Check out the tried and reliable system in Palm Beach County or Pinellas County in Florida as just two very good examples of county wide common systems. Oh isn't that what the consultants recommended a decade ago for Oakland County?
Those are facts unlike your political face saving ramblings . . . . .
In Oakland County, the emporer has no clothes . . . . . .
Just an update, Farmington Hills Police have made the full switch to open sky...no more 424.2500
OsloViking1975
Member
You might find this interesting. These are reports from Milwaukee, Wisconsin about Open Sky problems. http://www.crgnetwork.com/OpenSkyOfficerReports.aspx These are from the officers themselves.
There are 244 reports.
There are 244 reports.
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bigbluemsp
Member
BT will call this BS and say they don't know what they are talking about.
BT just wait until one officer gets killed becuase his radio won't work the way they were told it would. Then wait for the suit to be finished and see how many 0's are added to the check of the widow and children he leaves behind.
The MPSCS is tested and tested and tested has been in service since 1994 when MSP District 2 went to the P25 800 platform.
Sky is Falling hasn't worked for any department yet, NY, PA, Milwaukee and Oakland County have had years of design, implementation and problems that the company can't understand, tech muchless fix.
tencom
Member
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 66
According to Milwaukee Police Chief Flynn their were over 2 million transmissions, with OPEN-SKY, during that time period that went through with no problems. Early in the transition to OPEN-SKY he issued a directive that if an officer experienced. any problem with OPEN-SKY, to submit a written report to his office, so
the problem could be resolved. These are those 244 submitted reports.
the problem could be resolved. These are those 244 submitted reports.
OsloViking1975
Member
244 to many.
Josh
Member
Oh come on... nothing is perfect, nothing.
I haven't heard complaints over the air lately, but MSP and other adopters of the MPSCS have made casual complaints about "the terrific radio system". There isn't a day that goes by that the Wayne County Sheriff dispatcher doesn't have to say "your radio is in a bad location, relocate- you're broken up".
As for system1, I was out in OC today, I wasn't able to monitor it. Have they finally shut it down?
OsloViking1975
Member
Of course nothing is perfect each radio systems have their flaws. Hopefully everbodies radio system works to their best ability in their counties. It's getting there Farmington is on open sky now. God Bless each and every Law Enforcements Officers and EMS/FDS and to be safe.
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