SDS100/SDS200: Feature Request: Find best site, utilizing adjacent site resource, Motorola Trunked P25

Skypilot007

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This hole thread is why scanners make me want to puke. Why can't the scanner lock onto the strongest site it sees when they are all Un- avoided. Instead, the stupid scanner starts scrolling thru all the sites every time scan resumes when. Why can't there be an option in the scanner for site RSSI threshold. When site RSSI goes below a preset limit it searches the site list for another site with acceptable RSSI. No need to constantly monitor other sites RSSI or for GPS. RSSI gets low, the scanner looks for another site. Would that be terribly hard to implement?
 

Ubbe

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Why can't the scanner lock onto the strongest site it sees when they are all Un- avoided.
Practically no system transmit all TG's on all sites, besides the simulcast ones. Uniden has designed a good system as when it monitors a call on one site and when it ends it then skips all other sites and scan the next system so it doesn't get "stuck" on just one system. In the next scan cycle it goes directly to the site that was active the last time. If there's no calls active during the hold time it starts to check all other sites for active calls and if none are found during the hold time it decides the system are "dead" at that time and goes to the next system.

Unidens scanners has both a memory for last active site, to quickly monitor the most probably site to have active calls, and a feature to search through all sites if the initial site has no active calls.

/Ubbe
 

phask

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I don't have a source, but I thought I heard waaaaaay back that implementing a feature like this in a scanner would get too close to whatever patents either Motorola or other bodies (standards developers?) had on the process. I was under the impression that specifically not sampling signal strength of adjacent sites and moving to the strongest signal was part of what allowed scanner manufacturers to avoid getting sued into oblivion for being able to 'trunk track' various protocols. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to recall being suggested from many, many years ago, like Greg Knox era.

I agree - but I thought Whistler had the patent. I remember Paul Opitz mentioning it years ago as the reason Uniden developed location-based scanning.
 

Echo4Thirty

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I know what the OP is suggesting, and can't imagine adding the overhead to a scanner to have it evaluate the signal strength of all neighbors on every pass through a site. My comment was, GPS is as close as you are going to get to what you want, at least currently.

I would imagine this is minimal overhead. A 40 year old Spectra can do it and the processor in modern scanners is orders of magnitude greater than what they had back then.
 

nokoa3116

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I monitor a system that has about 150 sites which none are simulcast. The manner in which I scan is with ID search, so looking for any talk group. The issue I am having is that at most instances the scanner is scanning between these 150 sites and rarely pauses on the active sites. So more time appears to be scanning sites, than spending waiting for call grants from a control channel. If I use the scanner while stationary in an area I know, then I hold to the specific site for that area. However these sites cover relatively small areas, and while driving I would lose reception with the held site. I understand that Uniden provides GPS as an upgrade and can solve this, however perhaps there’s a better way specifically for these large trunked systems where GPS isn’t necessarily needed. GPS can come in more useful if I was traveling between conventional systems, or connecting to new trunked systems. But once in a trunked system, and only monitoring the trunked system perhaps there’s a better way to find the best site.

In the original post I mentioned the need to discover sites within the system, and while that would be nice too, it isn’t necessarily relevant, especially for most people.


Often with the Uniden SDS100, for any given area I can only pick up one site with the stock antenna. A bit more with a roof mounted antenna for that band. But probably max of 3 sites. So even though it was described in this thread the interest of prioritizing sites to the held talkgroup, it won’t necessarily be possible anyways, because not all sites are within range, so not all talkgroups can be received.

An APX, with non affiliate scan, does pose the issue you described, especially because the non subscriber user can’t directly choose a site to lock onto, or affiliate with the current site to receive a particular talk group.

The APX radio utilizes multiple methods to determine when to switch sites, and which sites to switch to. It is my understanding that on boot the radio will scan through the programmed frequencies to find the best site. Once locked on the radio decodes the adjacent site data which contains the channels and status for nearby sites. Then depending on the programming of the radio, if the radio goes below a certain RSSI values with the site, it will attempt to switch to a better one. But unless programmed otherwise it will only look through the list of adjacent sites it decoded earlier. It will then lock onto one of them, I am assuming the one with the best RSSI. In addition certain talkgroups can be programmed to have preferences on which sites they are allowed on, or preferred on.


It was also mentioned in this thread that Uniden cannot use the method of reading adjacent site data because it's patented. However I was told that it is a part of the P25 Standard, and is not exclusive to one brand of radio or system.

What I want, is the ability to actually continuously receive voice channels, rather than scan between all the 150 sites and occasionally stop for a second on the 1 to 3 sites that are in range. In addition I don't want to have to manually scroll through all the sites and hold to whichever one I think is best for the location I am currently at. I think it's better to automatically lock onto the best currently received site. Or at least only scan between the sites that have acceptable reception. While less frequently finding new sites, and switching between them only when necessary.

I understand that for most people this may not be the case, and some might want to scan all the sites all the time. However I would much rather have the scanner act more like a radio would with these trunked radio systems or even any multi site system. So the system can actually be followed no matter where I am within the coverage area, by locking onto the best sites automatically.
 

donc13

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Plain and simple, to do that would require 2 receivers. Either that or scan the other 149 sites with the one receiver to see which is stronger and in the meantime no listening on the active site.

Not going to happen.
 

KevinC

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Plain and simple, to do that would require 2 receivers. Either that or scan the other 149 sites with the one receiver to see which is stronger and in the meantime no listening on the active site.

Not going to happen.
Hmm....all my "real" radio can monitor adjacent sites using a single receiver.
 

KevinC

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Don't all your real radios cost 5x to 10x more than SDS100 ? And are you sure those real radios don't have more than one receiver chip? (I don't know, so seriously curious.)
Nope, one receiver. Motorola radios have monitored adjacent sites for 30 years now. The radio will leave the CC for about 80 milliseconds every 5 seconds to check the adjacent sites
 

Echo4Thirty

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Don't all your real radios cost 5x to 10x more than SDS100 ? And are you sure those real radios don't have more than one receiver chip? (I don't know, so seriously curious.)

Nope, some of my 'real radios' that can do it are less expensive (even new) than the SDS and are not even SDR or as powerful as the circuitry inside.
 

Echo4Thirty

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Brand & model ?

Seriously? Do your own research man. There are trunking radios for sale (albeit basic) that can do multisite scanning with one receiver that cost either the same or less than what the SDS100/200 goes for. I am not going to sit and generate a list to prove a point. Ill give you a hint though, think outside of the /\/\ name or even the P25 protocol.
 

jtwalker

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Seriously? Do your own research man. There are trunking radios for sale (albeit basic) that can do multisite scanning with one receiver that cost either the same or less than what the SDS100/200 goes for. I am not going to sit and generate a list to prove a point. I’ll give you a hint though, think outside of the /\/\ name or even the P25 protocol.
You claim to own these radios ( my radios). Just thought yiu could list some. I can see you are bs’ing.
 
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