fl-dj said:
SOFA_KING said:
How can he hear "digital" or "talk groups" on the VHF link? The TGs he listed are from the current Motorola 800 system. He is listening to the Motorola system!
The real question is WHAT FREQUENCY IS THE CONTROL CHANNEL YOU ARE LISTENING TO ON? Assuming it's not a tropo band opening, it may actually be similar to the odd stuff I am hearing in St. Lucie County. A new MOTOROLA control channel came up and I hear some traffic separate from the main Motorola system. Perhaps this is a system designed for the AIR UNITS. The SOT mentions it will construct 10 special sites at selected areas of the state (all mentioned) just for the air units. They said air traffic causes interference on the ground because of it's greater range. The big mystery here is why they are using a Motorola system. Maybe that is part of the new plan. Much more will be coming in the near future with special Motorola links to facilitate interoperability from outside agencies who do NOT use EDACS. That is a know fact. How this will be done should be interesting!
You can monitor any 800mhz digital encrypted call that is patched to VHF in the clear because the patch is made at the console after the call is decoded from digital / encrypted to clear analog voice for use at the console. Think of it this way, can your ear decode a digital / encryted voice call? NO, so you need a way for this to be decoded, once that is done and that audio is fed to the dispatch position, it can be patched to analog ANYmhz at will.
You can also setup a patch using 2 mobiles, take a VHF analog mobile and an 800mhz digital encrypted mobile and feed the audio out of one into the TX in of the other, there are kits that do this.
What you can't do (actually can but it doesn't work well) is patch a digital call to another digital call on a different system, example, 800mhz digital talkgroup to a vhf digital conventional channel. Will it work, yes but due to delays in vocoding and double vocoding the call will become un-useable.
This does not apply to a patch setup on a console with multiple digital talkgroups or channels within the same system.
FL_DJ,
I never mentioned anything about "encryption". What I pointed out was the fact that you can't get talkgroup ID's from a VHF conventional patch. I also said you couldn't hear "digital" on the VHF patch (meaning it's not a digital channel). I suppose you could if the VHF patch channel was also digital, but as you pointed out, two vocoder conversions would degrade audio quality.
bravo14, who lives near Jax, is seeing talkgroup ID's. He is saying they are digital channels. He must be trunking a system to get the TG IDs and it can't be Provoice digital channels if he is hearing it. I conclude he is listening (trunk tracking) to the State Motorola system. Band opening? Maybe he is in range of the Phase 2 system in Flagler.
As far as my interest in the future links out of the EDACS system, I just wonder how this will be done in terms of frequencies and access. I would bet the system would be one of those "don't call us, we'll call you" type systems with the SOF in full control of it. Maybe local level units who want to contact state units will have to request a patch from FDLE on either a patch frequency or on a call channel like MA CALL. I would bet that it will be a big deal to get a link established and might involve local dispatchers as well as state dispatchers to get it established. (introduce operator training issues and operator error here) If that does turn out to be the case, you could expect it to only be used for bigger emergencies or big joint ops. Most likely it would not be as easy as lets say a county SO unit picking up the mic and calling a state unit without major assistance.
All of this is speculation, so we will have to wait and see. If it does turn out to be true, I expect it will be a VERY limited resource. I see such "overcomplicated" "overcontrol" systems as major blockades to good interoperability communication. It's not easy, and operator error plus training issues are introduced which could be life threatening. With these types of systems being so complicated it would get little use, thus defeating the purpose.
I think the State of Florida is mismanaging it's communications. Poor choices all the way. It's bad enough that they intentionally "shroud" public communications on public frequencies with full encryption on everything, but to set up complicate solutions for interoperability with "big brother" overcontrol is not making an effective system for simple and easy to use interoperability. In short...I don't think they know what the hell they are doing.
What would have made better sense? A VHF statewide trunked system that brings every public safety agency in the state onto the system. That would be a good solution. Why VHF? Much better range for lower cost infrastructure (fewer towers needed), new "clear" frequencies that became available, and conventional channels with good range are also available (some of which are in use now). Now is the time to return to VHF (a much better band than 800 ever will be). Separate systems and frequency bands do not unify public safety workers. One good system for all on one good band is the solution. Proper talkgroup and channel assignment (programming) is also key to good effective communications. Build a simple easy to use system for all with excellent coverage (SIMPLE!). NOW IS THE TIME. Once the VHF frequencies become "eaten up", the State will not have the chance to get them.
No need for full time encryption on everything either! No one wants a police state! Anyone who has heard what is said on "Private Call" conversations on the State system knows what kind of abuses could be expected on fully encrypted systems. Without any type of "watchdog" from the public eye or press, we can expect abuse! This is not the "My Florida" I want to live in. It's becoming a dangerous policy of "secret government" with tones of over-control. If more of the public were scanner listeners, and they would write letters to our government officials in protest, we might be able to keep our rights to monitor public frequencies with public communications. The majority of Floridians are unaware of this dangerous policy of secrecy. The press has failed to make the public aware. We are losing a critical battle to protect ourselves from abuse.
Too bad we allowed the State of Florida to mess this all up so bad. We loose in so many ways. The STO has done a BAD job. We are screwed!
