FirstNet in Southern Nevada

[Hooligan]

This is going to be a growing topic of interest for us over the next several years.


https://www.firstnet.gov/

https://www.firstnet.com

https://fcontent.att.com/dynamic/iamLRR/LrrController

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...att-stand-to-gain-from-firstnet/#4dde441d2997

 

[Hooligan]

CCFD & FirstNet:

https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/lo...nders-more-efficient-communication/1408378508

The chief didn't say if the plan is to migrate to this & eventually drop SNACC (which will hurt SNACC a lot) or if the plan for the forseable future is that the FirstNet device will be yet another item that someone has to carry, in-addition to the SNACC radio (& yeah, I know SNACC & FirstNet can & will be patched). The video/data gives first-responders more information, which the great majority of personnel probably won't need let-alone be able to reference while driving or fighting a fire. CCFD Chief Cassell promotes FirstNet, using talking-points probably provided by public relations folks at FirstNet, FEMA, APCO, etc. Us old-timers have heard it all before -- technology will save the day! The reality is that the technology has to be used properly for it to be effective, and by stating that during the 1 October incident, text messages were delayed & voice PCS phone calls were dropped due to network saturation, he's indicating that his agency apparently never set itself up with the DHS Wireless Priority Service. So now if someone accuses him/CCFD of gross negligence because of that, watch as the story changes & "Well, it was very few calls dropped, & SMS messages delayed!" I expect FirstNet users can get bonked just like with SNACC. FirstNet devices may be have priority classes, so that a higher-priority user can seize the channel from a lower priority user. Cool, as-long as the highest-priority access devices are going to be issued to the lowly firefighter or patrol officer who is likely to be part of the initial response, and maybe inside a burning building or taking fire from a suspect, not someone like Chief Cassell, who will be safe at a command post. If your have FirstNet cross-patched to SNACC talk-groups, you're still going to have traffic congestion, and in a major contingency (like 1 Oct event) you're still going to have the same chaos & confusion & channel congestion on FirstNet-only channels.

I'm not anti-FirstNet, but I am anti-BS & this puff-piece is really just a commercial for FirstNet that tries to prepare the ignorant masses to shell-out more $$ for FirstNet devices & subscriptions, while continuing to fund SNACC, the new Motorola NSRS, etc. Do you think a firefighter will be able to switch channels or change the volume level on a FirstNet device while wearing thick gloves & without looking at the display? I suppose the nice thing about a FirstNet device --*assuming* it's set-up properly, is that it helps the Incident Commander & Division or Group Safety Officer with PAR if everyone is issued one & their exact location can be monitored (which in-turn means no one will want to carry it off-duty). For the same reason FDs usually have a simplex "Fireground" channel & LE radios have a simplex/talk-around channel, do you really think that FirstNet devices will have some sort of simplex communications mode for last-ditch, emergency comms efforts if a device can't reach the FirstNet system infrastructure? Can a device battery quickly be swapped-out, or does a subscribing agency need to have a cache of extra devices to swap-out as others go low on batteries (& do you send someone into a complex situation if they've only got 40% battery life left?).

A lot of concerns, perhaps all have been well thought-out & addressed, but we have an obligation to our public safety first-responders to help them be able to help us...

 

[mmckenna]

None of your concerns are new, they've been floating around for a while.

All good points, but I suspect that many do not understand the purpose of FirstNet.

FirstNet is not intended to replace two way radio systems. Yes, it will carry voice traffic, but even FirstNet will tell you that it's not the intended purpose. It will support PTT voice over cellular, but the product out there are intended to interface to existing two way radio systems. The idea that someone can monitor traffic, talk back if needed, but the "boots on the ground" will likely still be carrying a radio for many years to come.
There is some manufacturers that are playing around with 900MHz simplex stuff. Very short range, similar to the old Nextel DirectConnect. 1 watt 900MHz isn't going to replace "real" radios.

One company at APCO was showing off a P25 "sled" that mounted to the back of a FirstNet handset. The idea was that it would handle the voice traffic into the network. The product had no labels, just something they were playing with in their lab.

FirstNet is intended to be a broadband data service. Your local agencies are already using terminals in their vehicles, often using slow speed data over a radio link, or using one of the existing carriers. FirstNet can replace that and add some benefits. But, many agencies will stick with what they have, Verizon, etc.

Handsets can be a bit pricey, but many are purpose built devices, much more rugged than a consumer smart phone. Some have easily replaceable batteries, louder audio, actual PTT buttons, knobs, etc. Audio interface connectors look more like 2 way radio speaker mic connections, not cheesy 1/8 plugs.
Take a look at some of the Sonim products to see some examples.

Preemption will have multiple levels, actual public safety users will have higher priority, lower tier FirstNet users will have lower priority. Lower tier users might be public works, hospital workers, relief agencies, etc. There's some flexibility in the network to support this.

Some of the better benefits will come when the applications designed for FirstNet are released. FirstNet has a specific "App store" that will provide appropriate public safety applications.

There's no requirement that any agency switch to FirstNet. We're looking at it where I work, but we may just stick with Verizon, as they are offering many of the same features.

Service plans are similar to consumer pricing. Some of it is cheaper. Some states are doing their own contracts, we were seeing things on the order of $40/mo for unlimited voice, data and text.

Don't necessarily go off the prices at FirstNet.com, agencies will/should negotiate something better.


Yeah, there's a lot of hype, and it's good to be skeptical, but give it time.

 

[Hooligan]

Thank you for the info! II do have basic familiarity with it, though I definitely don't have an understanding of device fielding -- migrating to it vs. traditional LMR or if some poor saps will be carrying a personal PCS phone +a FirstNet device + a LMR brick. I know MANY public safety types that did not want dispatch/Admin to have their home #s or personal cellphone #s because they didn't want their off-time to be interrupted with work matters. The union would even force the dept to issue pagers to personnel that that were in special units needing 24/7 availability instead of requiring officers to submit their personal contact info -- albeit, these were the Baby-Boomer/Gen-X aged personnel, not the newer generation which happily carry & gives-out their contact info to everyone. So I can see some resistance to people carrying the FirstNet device with them when off-duty due to the tracking capabilities, & still paying for their own PCS phone not capable of FirstNet. It's important that each agency come up with very good policies & training so that at an incident, someone with an 'old-fashioned' radio has any important situational awareness that others are passing via their trendy new FirstNet devices, and as you probably know, for public-safety, a lot of lessons-learned are written in blood.


I do know that despite us still hearing lots & lots of stuff on the local LMR systems -- SNACC, NSRS, the secure channels on the LVMPD 700/P25 Phase 2 system et al, FirstNet is around. In particular, I frequently hear a couple NHP Troopers on NSRS that tend to have a distinctive 'metallic' sound to their transmissions, & am wondering if they may be playing with FirstNet PTT devices patched to some NHP channels on the NSRS LMR.

Also, some federal radio activity that was very prevalent on a daily basis suddenly disappeared a few years ago, and hasn't reappeared in another part of the federal government LMR spectrum. Unless they migrated to some secure LVMPD talk-groups, I suspect they're using FirstNet devices for PTT et al.

 

[mmckenna]

First net has only been in use since around the beginning of the year.
Basically it's a system ID that runs on top of the AT&T network. It's a separate network core, but attached to the consumer AT&T network. Eligible agencies can buy a "FirstNet" SIM card and make any LTE device FirstNet.
Eventually LTE Band 14 (In the 700MHz spectrum, separate from LMR 700MHz) will be rolled out at most AT&T sites. Band 14 is dedicated to FirstNet use, however AT&T can allow other users access to the spectrum if it's not needed by public safety users.

There's a couple of other benefits:
Some devices are allowed to run more power on Band 14 than consumer devices, so they can squeeze a bit more range out of it. There was some testing done in Texas and they were getting ~60 miles from the cell site.
While hand held devices will be popular, mobile terminals will get more benefit, more power (mentioned above) external antennas, etc. Will be helpful for terminal access out on the fringes.
There's options to interface to satellites, too, so even if out of the FirstNet coverage, access through local/transportable hotspots will be an option.
There are a number of LMR radio manufacturers that are adding LTE radios to their traditional LMR radios. That way when the user gets in weak/no coverage areas, the radio can fall back on FirstNet to link back to a system gateway. Add in WiFi modules, which many of the radios have, and they can utilize WiFi like the LTE links.

It'll be up to each agency to decide on the protocols. Many agencies are issuing officers cell phones for various reasons, either for data, photos, or more secure communications when the radio isn't appropriate. This will just add to the existing options.

As for personal devices, each agency will have the ability to access a FirstNet portal and control the devices. That would mean that in a big enough incident, they can add/remove their own users as needed.

I don't think it's going to be the "killer app" that they are making it out to be, but it's a good idea. Mobile data is huge, and a solution like/similar to this is a good idea. And the US isn't the only one doing it. Many other countries are doing similar systems.

 

[Hooligan]

Fire chief encourages early FirstNet adoption, cites cost savings, potential mission-critical use in 2024

Fire chief encourages early FirstNet adoption, cites cost savings, potential mission-critical use in 2024 – Urgent Comms