Franklin County 2 Questions

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greggyboy88

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Rocky Mount, Virginia
I have a BC536, programmed through Sentinat and the RR database.

Question 1: Sherriff has 3 channels in the talk group, but I only ever hear traffic on the mobiles channel 3. Never any traffic on dispatch channel 1 ? Any clue what might be wrong ?

Question 2: FRS traffic. Seem to be getting most of it. In Sentinel there are a list of frees in the 856-859 range. However FCC licenses show a bunch of freqs in the 806 - 809 range that correlate with known FRS stations, that aren't listed in Sentinel. Should they be there ?

Not stupid about scanning, but it has become much more advanced.

Thanks in advance....

Greg
 

N4ANJ

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Answers to Questions

Franklin County Sheriffs talk groups are ALL encrypted. Until about three weeks ago dispatch was in the clear and mobiles encrypted. Now it is all encrypted. Fire & Rescue frequencies in the 806-809 mhz are input frequencies and the 856-859 mhz are output frequencies to all eleven simulcast sites or another way to say it is six channels (12 frequency pairs). You only need to monitor the output frequencies. Mike.
 

greggyboy88

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Mike, I understand that all 3 FC Sherriff channels are encrypted now. What troubles me is that I am only receiving traffic on Channel 3 - the mobile channel. I do NOT receive any traffic on the Dispatch Channel or on the Tac Channel. Again I understand that it likely encrypted, but I would still like to receive it - as a measure of the activity level in the county. Are you receiving any kind of traffic on TGID 416 or 420, the first two channels ?
 

W4UVV

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Prince George, Virginia--Central Va.
806-809 mhz.

I have a BC536, programmed through Sentinat and the RR database.

Question 1: Sherriff has 3 channels in the talk group, but I only ever hear traffic on the mobiles channel 3. Never any traffic on dispatch channel 1 ? Any clue what might be wrong ?

Question 2: FRS traffic. Seem to be getting most of it. In Sentinel there are a list of frees in the 856-859 range. However FCC licenses show a bunch of freqs in the 806 - 809 range that correlate with known FRS stations, that aren't listed in Sentinel. Should they be there ?

Not stupid about scanning, but it has become much more advanced.

Thanks in advance....

Greg
--------------------
Greg:

806-809 mhz. are part of the input frequency ranges to 800 mhz. trs. Actually the typical input range is 806-817 mhz.(Region 42). Add 45 mhz. to determine the output frequency or subtract 45 mhz. from the output frequency to determine the input frequency.

In the past I recall seeing selected frequencies in the input range licensed for mobile simplex. Maybe we should be paying more attention to the 806-817 mhz. range for monitoring.

For example, Henrico Co. Sheriff WPMZ405. The authorized emission is "20K0F9W". Here is an extract of the RR FCC Emission Codes section.

"Use of F9W Suffix

Some license application preparers have used the suffix F9W to indicate that multiple different emissions within the specified bandwidth are possible. This simplifies filling information into the FCC 601 form, but does not reflect each specific modulation type. For example, 11K2F9W may indicate that the system toggles between narrowband analog voice and P25 (or some other) digital emission, but not at the same time. A strict interpretation of ITU emissions indicates that the F9W suffix is both analog and digital simultaneously, and is therefore incorrect. A properly completed 601 form should itemize each discrete emission intended so the technologies used may be easily identified.

The exception to using F9W is Harris OpenSky, which has been certificated by the FCC as F9W, although F7W may be better descriptive".

End of RR Quote

Did everybody understand that?....It's a lengthy way of saying it can be whatever emission modes are licensed to the user. Thanks for that clarification. Instead of attempting to parse or dissect the above verbage, let's assume it is the typical emission mode used by the Henrico Co., VA Police Dept.

For the curious here is the FCC License link:

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Conv License - WPMZ405 - County of Henrico, Police Division

IAW PUBLIC SAFETY NATIONAL PLAN REGION #42 []
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Here's another one: Pittsylvania Co. WQRI339 E.C.C./Law Enforcement

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Conv License - WQRI339 - PITTSYLVANIA COUNTY, VA

Unless I am misreading the frequencies' use, there is one 807 and two 808 mhz. 3 watt mobile frequencies which can be used as simplex tac or possibly by their appropriate base frequencies for reverse frequency relationship comms. The 852 and 853 mhz. frequencies also are used as mobile extenders.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last one: Blackburg PD WPQH221

ULS License - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Conv License - WPQH221 - BLACKSBURG, TOWN OF

The license is quite clear.

"90.617 - POLICE DISPATCH AND TACTICAL COMMUNICATIONS. GOV T ENTITY "

Spot checking, unless I am mistaken, there are a couple of simplex frequencies in the 806 mhz. range which probably are for tac comms. Once again "F9W" emission code is used.

So a conclusion can be made that some comms are being missed by those monitors in these aforementioned areas because these lower 800 mhz. frequencies are not being scanned.

This also applies to NOVA and the large trs in use. I didn't research them but Fairfax Co. probably would be largest one to check.

John
W4UVV
 

N4ANJ

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ID SEARCH

It sounds like you are in ID Scan. If you want to discover all activity on the system, while scanning press Func then E/yes. I have not heard any activity on TGID 416 or 420. Dispatch is on 421. And there is also 422,423,424,425,& 427. Rocky Mount PD has more too. And there are others. Most or all are encrypted. Lifeguard comes up on the system too. I also suggest you be in "4 Line Display" if you aren't already to see the Unit ID's, Hold on any channel then Func then press 9. You would have had to have made your list of unit Id's when the traffic was unencrypted to know which id"s go with which car units and handhelds. A "HINT " for anything in the clear now! Have Fun. Mike.
 

greggyboy88

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Rocky Mount, Virginia
Okay, I just assumed that 421 was mobile, makes sense that it is dispatch. I am in scan, I will change to search. Didn't know you could do 4 line display. Either 3 or 9 ? Changing that too. I will keep drilling. Thanks again for the help
 

greggyboy88

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Rocky Mount, Virginia
I set it to display the TGID, but still in 3 line. Sounds like I am getting everything that I am supposed to hear, just got things backwards. Assumed 421 was mobile, but in truth it were dispatch. I will keep listening, and yes I will have fun thank you again.

G
 

N4ANJ

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Clarification

TGID 421 is actually dispatch plus mobile. Dispatch has five different unit id's. I assume they have five dispatch consoles at the communications center. You can figure these out by using the Rocky Mount PD TGID. They are the same on the encrypted sheriffs TGID's. Mike.
 

greggyboy88

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Rocky Mount, Virginia
RR lists 416 as the dispatch and leads one to believe that 421 is mobile. Now that you set me straight, I am quite clear. I was hearing all I was supposed to, just didn't understand who it was properly,
 

kb4cvn

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Nowhere near a paved road, away from the maddening
Part of the issue was the Dispatcher was transmitting in the clear, and the mobiles were transmitting secure.

In the old days of analog clear comms, it was easy to tell if it was secure to the 'digital sound' of the user's voices. But today with P-25, clear comms are digital too. So, if the radios were not programmed for FORCED encryption (Moto called it "strapped"), some users were clear digital and others secure digital. Clear user's radios seeing the incoming secure transmission, the radios A/D converter automatically switched to secure mode, with the user mostly being clueless of the difference.

Apparently someone at Franklin figured out what was actually occurring and resolved the issue. (100% secure)

Pittsylvania County does the same thing too... Hopefully they won't 'fix' their comms....
 
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