Freedom Comm Breakout Box

[69CJ]

Looking to purchase a Freedom Communication's service console, probably the r8100. The r8100 does NXDN subscriber autotest/tune but they say I need a breakout box and then add they no longer sell a compatible one (model 202951-01). They then go on to say KW doesn't have one for sell either. What alternatives do I have for a breakout box. Also, what's a viable alternative to the r8100? Thanks.

 

[KK6ZTE]

Can't help you with the breakoutbox as most of my customers are Motorola.

However, my R8100 is awesome. Other tech in the company has an R8000 (same w/o battery) and loves it too (he's shop tech, I'm field). It's a bit of an adjustment from our previous IFR 2975s, but they're great. You'll like it. It's so incredibly light.

 

[69CJ]

Thanks for the reply. I have had sent to me a schematic from KW on how to build one. Not sure if I want to tackle such a project with my limited knowledge. I'm holding out hope that someone has one laying around or know of someone that can build one.

 

[mmckenna]

However, my R8100 is awesome. Other tech in the company has an R8000 (same w/o battery) and loves it too (he's shop tech, I'm field). It's a bit of an adjustment from our previous IFR 2975s, but they're great. You'll like it. It's so incredibly light.

Hey, John,

Looking to purchase one of those in the near future as part of a much larger project.
Are you guys happy enough with them that you'd buy it again? I'll need NXDN and P25 p1 capability, autotune would be nice for the 500 or so radios. Looking to buy once, since that's the way our purchasing system works best.
Do you know if they'll autotune the APX line? Couldn't find it on the website, but it seems strange they'd not support Mother M.

 

[KK6ZTE]

I have the APX 8000 and MOTOTRBO autotune options, there was an oversight and I don’t (currently) have the lower end APX options. We can take this to private messaging for the user opinions to not detract from the thread.

 

[radioman2001]

I doubt you find a breakout box lying around as this monitor is relatively new. We have a dozen of them mainly for PTC, (they wouldn't allow P-25 or NXDN on this order this round) so far they are OK, it takes a steep learning curve to be proficient. One tech we have spent 2 months learning about it, and he is now the master. As far as supporting Mother M, they are a separate company now, no longer tied to M apron strings.
If you pay them enough money they will build anything for you, and presently they are the only service monitor that does PTC site and mobile testing.

 

[kd4efm]

You can order the cables for the auto-tune, there is no REAL BREAK-OUT box, just a cable (like a on the the KMC-54wdm) for the multi-pin, the same with the 2 prong, and the mobile cable. Basically have to make you own. Did that for our R8100 with Trunking Option. I have the R8000b and love it (though it works for Conventional NXDN, DMR and soon P25 to be added.

 

[69CJ]

You can order the cables for the auto-tune, there is no REAL BREAK-OUT box, just a cable (like a on the the KMC-54wdm) for the multi-pin, the same with the 2 prong, and the mobile cable. Basically have to make you own. Did that for our R8100 with Trunking Option. I have the R8000b and love it (though it works for Conventional NXDN, DMR and soon P25 to be added.

Is there someone you are aware of that can make one of these. I have the schematics from KW. If I can get it built for around what KW used to charge I'd be happy.

 

[to2way]

Is there any special / proprietary parts in the schematic? Can you share/send/PM it ?

 

[69CJ]

None of it appears proprietary. I will try to PM you with it.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

We were always told to adapt to the Motorola service box (which is what you use for servicing all Motorola portables) but I believe most Kenwood service manuals have the needed service points listed. For APX mobiles you use a isolation circuit in the speaker jack (it's a 8 Ohm 10W resistior in parallel with a 600-600 Ohm transformer).

Anyway, @mmckenna APX Autotunes are available.

Some things about the R8000/R8100:

• For DMR and P25 at least, they are store/playback (but a P25 encode/decode option is now available).
• Cannot load encryption keys...there is not a need with store/playback functionality for function testing.
• Layout is almost identical to the R2600 layout when it comes to controls (if you are familiar with one, it'll be a breeze for you).
• The R8000C is essentially an R8100 minus the battery and a few other features (the 8000A/B machines are completely different).

Some other things to note, call up a rep at Freedom and ask to talk to them about the boxes. They are more than happy to answer questions (I'm not affiliated with them but am a former MR for them). Call up the guys at Viavi (Cobham...Aeroflex...IFR) and tell them you are looking at a Freedom box and be prepared to listen to them tell you about how much the Freedom box sucks because it can't measure modulation fidelity and is therefore inaccurate and isn't even a Motorola approved service monitor (it is actually listed as an alternate) and then you can listen to them go on about the R2670 (which was the Motorola approved box for the Astro and Astro 25 lines) and how it sucks just as much. Their words, not mine and I've yet to hear a Freedom rep or employee talk bad about an Aeroflex box. Sorry about the rant mid-relpy.

 

[mmckenna]

Layout is almost identical to the R2600 layout when it comes to controls (if you are familiar with one, it'll be a breeze for you).

It's been a while, been out of that stuff for quite a few years. With all the radios we have it's starting to make more sense. Getting ready to build out a new simulcast VHF system at work and part of the project will include funding for support and maintenance in house.

Some other things to note, call up a rep at Freedom and ask to talk to them about the boxes. They are more than happy to answer questions (I'm not affiliated with them but am a former MR for them). Call up the guys at Viavi (Cobham...Aeroflex...IFR) and tell them you are looking at a Freedom box and be prepared to listen to them tell you about how much the Freedom box sucks because it can't measure modulation fidelity and is therefore inaccurate and isn't even a Motorola approved service monitor (it is actually listed as an alternate) and then you can listen to them go on about the R2670 (which was the Motorola approved box for the Astro and Astro 25 lines) and how it sucks just as much. Their words, not mine and I've yet to hear a Freedom rep or employee talk bad about an Aeroflex box. Sorry about the rant mid-relpy.

Yeah, I understand. I'll make sure I've got a fresh cup of coffee and find something to watch on the youtubes while they do their thing.
My Kenwood factory rep also reps Anritsu and we've talked a few times.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Depending on what test you do...takes between 7 and 15 minutes per radio. There are also some tests which can be skipped at times. For example, I used to do a bunch of XTS2500's that operated on the local trunking system. They were utilized in digital only and used by a local university for operations (nothing public safety)...so I'd typically not waste the extra 6 minutes to perform the analog function tests (SINAD, analog distortion, analog deviation, etc).

 

[mmckenna]

Depending on what test you do...takes between 7 and 15 minutes per radio. There are also some tests which can be skipped at times. For example, I used to do a bunch of XTS2500's that operated on the local trunking system. They were utilized in digital only and used by a local university for operations (nothing public safety)...so I'd typically not waste the extra 6 minutes to perform the analog function tests (SINAD, analog distortion, analog deviation, etc).

OK, even the 15 minutes is manageable.
Our PD system has about 30 portables and 10 or so mobiles. Some of those are 6-7 years old and need some touch up. Should have been done long ago, and I thought they'd sent them off to a local shop to be done, but I guess not. We're going to replace those radios, and I want to get in the routine of running them through every year, or more frequently if we suspect something is wrong.

Then there's 450 or so Kenwood NX-900's, NX-410's, NX-420's, NX-3400's that I'd like to start running through. Having a shop come in a do those periodically would kill us, so DIY is my long term plan.

Then some Bridgecom UHF repeaters that someone bought that I've become responsible for. I'd feel more confident with the right test equipment and not sending everyone off to a shop for $85/hr.

Now the harder part will be typing up the justification. The writing it is the easy part. Putting it into terms that non-radio people will understand is the challenge. Since most people don't get their cars tuned up anymore, I'm going to have to find an analogy they will understand.

 

[69CJ]

Just a followup. I have a couple of people looking at building a breakout box for me. I know I don't need it to conduct the majority of the testing the Freedom box will do but I like knowing that I have it.

The system I oversee has just over a thousand subscriber units and we have been chasing bad comms for several years now. We have had KW fly in and even have hired independent consultants to look at our system but problems still exist. Being able to conduct tests on subscriber units helps me eliminate some of the possible causes. And so far everyone I have talked to says these radios need to be tuned every few years regardless if we have obvious system issues or not.

I have rec'd a demo box from freedom and so far every portable I have tested is out of spec on tx power and tx modulation. TX power is just slightly low so no big deal. TX Mod says that it can be off by as much a +/- 1% and I have seen some radios off by as much as 3%. For the most part, I have been left to my own to learn what I can as I don't have any formal radio education.

Thanks for the info.

PS we are running an NXDN, 4 site/5 channel system on VHF 6.25

 

[Project25_MASTR]

My flat rate alignment was about $55 per radio which I a number I set based on the time it takes to Autotune a radio versus the regular $115/hr shop rate. Just over a 1 year period you've bought yourself a base model monitor.

@69CJ another thing you can take a look at is Locus products. Not service monitors per say but they are high stability receivers which monitor uplink info (conventional or trunked) and log TX modulation issues, frequency error, etc. Great tool for those who outsource their alignment jobs as you can send only the radios that actually need to be serviced when they start to reach limits.

 

[mmckenna]

My flat rate alignment was about $55 per radio which I a number I set based on the time it takes to Autotune a radio versus the regular $115/hr shop rate. Just over a 1 year period you've bought yourself a base model monitor.

Yeah, that's part of my justification.
And not throwing out "broken" radios that can be fixed.

 

[cmdrwill]

And not throwing out "broken" radios that can be fixed.

GOOD point.

 

[69CJ]

Does anyone actually own a kenwood breakout box KPG-144at? Im hoping someone does.