I was wondering which radios perform the best? Distance wise? Does anybody have rough figures?? Also what brands perform better than others for each of the (3) catagories??
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FRS vs GMRS vs 900 mhz radios ( performance)
- Thread starter johnls7424
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First, FRS is very low powered and therefore of limited use. The distances on the packages are under absolutely perfect conditions and even then rarely obtainable. The good side is the radios are cheap, they work, are interference free and require no license. GMRS requires a license and works in the same band as FRS (460 MHZ), but with more power for greater range and the possibility of using a repeater to extend range even further. Some FRS and GMRS frequencies are shared, but using a FRS to talk to GMRS is illegal unless you have a license. Frs is also not allowed to use a repeater to extend range and must have a fixed antenna on the transmitter. 900 mhz radios operate at nearly twice the frequency of the other two. They are also free from most interference but require safety precautions due to the high frequency. The antenna must be kept away from the body, especially the face and head. Higher power is allowed but this can increase the problem of a safe distance from the antenna. They also use repeaters. Cost is a big issue, as they are commercial equipment, and a high quality handheld can run into the thousands for new equipment. Even an older used radio will run three hundred dollars and higher. If distance and reliability are the main factors, go with GMRS. If you need secure communications, 900 mhz can handle that for a price. For general short distances and casual communications, spend $50.00 for a set of FRS radios.
For the best overall performance (without repeater usage such as GMRS), I'd recommend the Motorola DTR (digital) 900 MHz radio series. They are a bit pricey, but I've used them out in the field and abused them, and they still look and operate like brand-new. FRS from my experience, is garbage. Lots of interference from other users, and with 1/2 watt of power, the usable range is nill. GMRS is different, if repeaters are involved. With my experience, the 900 MHz DTR radio series provides a better than P25 digital sound, and once you're out of range with the other radios, it will not transmit (defaults to an "Out of Range" indicator.)
Yeah I want something can perform for at least a Mile in a average area. Digital I know is the way to go. License free is even more of a perk. I saw those particular radios online for around 250.00 bucks give or take. So I may just go with them. Range is my main concern. Clarity of course is the added bonus.
K5MPH
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Don't for get about MURS radios,they put out 2watts you might want to check them out I have a pair and they go beyond 2miles range and can be used with an ext.antanna also........
Don't for get about MURS radios,they put out 2watts you might want to check them out I have a pair and they go beyond 2miles range and can be used with an ext.antanna also........
Yes I know about MURS. I want security as well. If the Motorola DTR can perform as well as any FRS/GMRS radios then thats the way to go. Having radios setup in groups seems secure enough for what I would be using them for. I need them for work but work in an area where people will have similar radios. MURS is everywhere. I need them to perform up to at least 1 mile in a city.
WB4CS
Member
Hmm lets see
Sorry to be facetious, I couldn't help it. All joking aside, I'd recommend contacting a local 2-way radio dealer. In larger cities most dealers also run their own trunked radio systems that you can lease radios from. It's possible they may have a digital trunked system that you can lease time on which may provide the security and coverage you need without spending a lot of money on radios that won't quite cover all of your needs.
- Up to 1 mile in a city
- Secure
- Digital
- Clarity
- License free
Sorry to be facetious, I couldn't help it. All joking aside, I'd recommend contacting a local 2-way radio dealer. In larger cities most dealers also run their own trunked radio systems that you can lease radios from. It's possible they may have a digital trunked system that you can lease time on which may provide the security and coverage you need without spending a lot of money on radios that won't quite cover all of your needs.
Yes very funny!! Haha!!
Anywho, I want a license free radio though. FRS/GMRS has way too much traffic. I know you need a license for 85.00 or so from the FCC to use a GMRS frequency, but still it does not provide the security I want from a radio. A business license is even more.
Looking for a budget that provides at least some outdoor distance and provides adequate security features such as group calls and or encryption.
Anywho, I want a license free radio though. FRS/GMRS has way too much traffic. I know you need a license for 85.00 or so from the FCC to use a GMRS frequency, but still it does not provide the security I want from a radio. A business license is even more.
Looking for a budget that provides at least some outdoor distance and provides adequate security features such as group calls and or encryption.
I was also looking through national two way radio about the 5 watt CP200 Motorola radio. I think that will perform pretty good considering its power
N4KVE
Member
In comparing apples to apples, I used 2 900 mhz MTS2000's to talk car to car simplex. The best I could do was 6/10 of a mile. Since I didn't think that was satisfactory, I then tried 2 UHF MTS2000's & the range increased to 1 mile. So here I am comparing 2 similar radio platforms, both using analog, the only difference being UHF/900. UHF gave better range.
WB4CS
Member
Another thing to consider about GMRS is the licensing. A GMRS license covers the licensee and their immediate family. So unless the other folks in your group are immediate family to you, each one would need a GMRS license. That cost will add up quickly.
Also agree with Moonboots, UHF will generally give you a little bit better coverage than 900 MHz when going simplex. VHF would give you even a little bit better coverage depending on your terrain.
Trying to keep on a license free band and still allow something that's digital and private, you're really limited on your options.
I've used the 900 MHz one watt Tri Square radios and they talk just about as far as GMRS bubble packs and much further than FRS.
900 MHz is going to be more line of sight, so there are several things to consider.
If you can borrow some of each kind and do some testing in the areas they will be used, it will keep you from making the wrong choice.
Forget about the FRS, use the GMRS to compare against any 900 MHz radios you want to try.
Antennas are the other equalizer. A fixed Bubble Pack antenna vs. a 900 MHz with a removable antenna with gain will make a big difference. A couple places sell 900 MHz antennas for portables with 6 db gain.
The antennas that come on the Bubble pack radios have negative gain.
Maybe try one of the 4 watt GMRS radios for sale with a good antenna, I'm betting you will increase the distance by a great deal. They are $100. at Powerworx. They are FCC legal radios, unlike the one's you get from China. 16 Channels and removable antennas, they work darn good for a handheld with a good antenna, a friend has one and likes his. They can be programmed for repeater use also and have PL Codes.
John
900 MHz is going to be more line of sight, so there are several things to consider.
If you can borrow some of each kind and do some testing in the areas they will be used, it will keep you from making the wrong choice.
Forget about the FRS, use the GMRS to compare against any 900 MHz radios you want to try.
Antennas are the other equalizer. A fixed Bubble Pack antenna vs. a 900 MHz with a removable antenna with gain will make a big difference. A couple places sell 900 MHz antennas for portables with 6 db gain.
The antennas that come on the Bubble pack radios have negative gain.
Maybe try one of the 4 watt GMRS radios for sale with a good antenna, I'm betting you will increase the distance by a great deal. They are $100. at Powerworx. They are FCC legal radios, unlike the one's you get from China. 16 Channels and removable antennas, they work darn good for a handheld with a good antenna, a friend has one and likes his. They can be programmed for repeater use also and have PL Codes.
John
Yeah I am trying to steer away as much as possible from FRS/GMRS. I know MURS is good, but with 2 watts maximum power I am very skeptical about its performance outdoors and for distance. Security is another concern. I know user " GM" ^^ said that the Motorola Digital Talk Radio's on the 900 MHz worked well. I want it to be license free is my other major concern. I was looking at the Motorola CP 185. It has voice scrambler built into it. However I do believe you need a Business band license to legally operate that radio. There too is money that needs to be spent. So I am on a budget but 250 dollars a radio is not out of the question if it performs up to 3 miles outdoors.
ranger2004
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digital = you either get it all .. Or none/bits unreadable.
So you need good signal all the time.
So you need good signal all the time.
I was wondering what you all thought about the Motorola CP185? Is the performance there? Can you talk 3 miles outdoors on this particular radio?
It all depends on what is in your way. Are you in a city, urban area or an open area, all of these factors as well as others will effect talking distance.
Remember, 900 Mhz needs to be pretty much line of sight.
To get distance on 900 MHz, you don't need a lot of power, what you do need is a high gain antenna and a straight shot between stations.
It's impossible to say how far this or that radio will talk, it depends on the above factors.
I'd look for a radio with higher power as it does help, get a good high gain antenna and make sure the receiving station has a high gain antenna and then look for the most open, direct path to transmit on.
I look at 900 MHz and higher as a point to point radio more than just a general transmitting radio, for that, I'd use 2 meters or 70 CM
I guess to me, 900 MHz is more of a fun thing to use rather than a serious way to communicate on a regular basis except for point to point as I already mentioned.
It's fun to experiment if you have the money to do so. If getting maximum distance using VHF is what you are after, you are better off putting your money into a good VHF transceiver, coax and antenna and maybe a brick and a beam to go along with the rest. That will get you far more distance than most 900 MHz set ups. The curvature of the earth and height of the antennas and place where transmitting from (height again) are a major factor.
I do very good with a 20 Watt GMRS transmitter and a 3 DBd Omni antenna at approx. 50 feet in the air. Not quite a good as with my VHF set up, but again, the curvature of the earth can limit one to talk about the same distance as the other depending on where you are transmitting.
Also, depending on where you live, a 222 MHz radio may be a good option. I'm in a rural area and there is nobody on 222 MHz for the most part, it's darn near a private frequency.
You can also buy a 2 Meter SSB radio and use a horizontal polarized beam, there should be less traffic than regular 2 meter FM and with two beams, your signal is just going in one direction for the most part. Lots of options. When you need total privacy, use Echolink, computer node to computer node.
John
Remember, 900 Mhz needs to be pretty much line of sight.
To get distance on 900 MHz, you don't need a lot of power, what you do need is a high gain antenna and a straight shot between stations.
It's impossible to say how far this or that radio will talk, it depends on the above factors.
I'd look for a radio with higher power as it does help, get a good high gain antenna and make sure the receiving station has a high gain antenna and then look for the most open, direct path to transmit on.
I look at 900 MHz and higher as a point to point radio more than just a general transmitting radio, for that, I'd use 2 meters or 70 CM
I guess to me, 900 MHz is more of a fun thing to use rather than a serious way to communicate on a regular basis except for point to point as I already mentioned.
It's fun to experiment if you have the money to do so. If getting maximum distance using VHF is what you are after, you are better off putting your money into a good VHF transceiver, coax and antenna and maybe a brick and a beam to go along with the rest. That will get you far more distance than most 900 MHz set ups. The curvature of the earth and height of the antennas and place where transmitting from (height again) are a major factor.
I do very good with a 20 Watt GMRS transmitter and a 3 DBd Omni antenna at approx. 50 feet in the air. Not quite a good as with my VHF set up, but again, the curvature of the earth can limit one to talk about the same distance as the other depending on where you are transmitting.
Also, depending on where you live, a 222 MHz radio may be a good option. I'm in a rural area and there is nobody on 222 MHz for the most part, it's darn near a private frequency.
You can also buy a 2 Meter SSB radio and use a horizontal polarized beam, there should be less traffic than regular 2 meter FM and with two beams, your signal is just going in one direction for the most part. Lots of options. When you need total privacy, use Echolink, computer node to computer node.
John
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WB4CS
Member
I believe johnls7424 is looking for something that is for business purposes (preferably non-licensed) if you read his posts. 2 meter, 70 cm, and 222 MHz are Amateur Radio bands, which are not for business communications. That also goes for Echolink, that's amateur, not business band.
You had some good ideas John, just for the wrong radio service
Agreed. To johnls7424, John (dksac2) hit the spot with 900 MHz line of sight. One of your posts said you needed something that would work well in an urban area, urban buildings block a lot of signal between two stations at that high of frequency. 900 MHz would likely not work well unless you've got your radio's antenna on top of a high building in the urban area. This of course depends on how "urban" it is... are we talking New York City urban or urban like a downtown of a small city?
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I was looking for a radio that can be for multiuse actually. I want one that I could use in the woods, fields, on the farm ( work) as well as do decently well up to 1 mile in a suburban neighborhood as well. Most definitely multi usage.
To my understanding MURS radios do not have the distance capabilities that I am looking for.
Other then buying a business radio license and setting up a system for that, GMRS, MURS, and CB are really the only ones that could be used for work and fun. GMRS works good in a city type setting and MURS works good in the "outdoor" settings.
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