Ft Lee Fire Dept day time response ?

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jvdet

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while in Ft Lee as happen several times the Fire Dept is responding to a call with only the Fire Offical-Prevention responding -- today it was up to the 14th floor of a hi rise. How can they do that ?? what ever happen to 2 in 2 out NFPA standard response even for an alarm? and is That fire Offical have full gear when he responds alone?? and if he finds a fire ?! what then ?
really - one person response???
 

902

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It's been like that since the mid-80s. Before we go tangential on NFPA, there has always been a policy (to my recollection - I've been out of the area for 16 years) that on fire (10-31), smoke (10-34), or multiple calls received there is a full response. What you heard was most likely a single electronic activation from a central station, or very possibly could have already been a confirmed malfunction. The high rise buildings have 24/7 paid maintenance or security people who might provide authentication.

There are thousands of housing and office units in high rises there, and overwhelming statistics over the past several decades. I know, the "just once" argument, but also consider that the borough employs many people who are volunteer firefighters who may not necessarily be dispatched, but may already be headed toward their respective stations. It's not unheard of to get an immediate upgrade in response after a 10-45 (activated alarm).

It might be interesting to know that Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, has a very large number of high rise occupancies and has a similar problem with a high volume of false smoke alarm activations.
 

GTR8000

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while in Ft Lee as happen several times the Fire Dept is responding to a call with only the Fire Offical-Prevention responding -- today it was up to the 14th floor of a hi rise. How can they do that ?? what ever happen to 2 in 2 out NFPA standard response even for an alarm? and is That fire Offical have full gear when he responds alone?? and if he finds a fire ?! what then ?
really - one person response???

Why don't you contact the Chief if you're so concerned? I'm sure he'd be more than happy to get your expert opinion on how his department should be run.

Chief Keith Sabatino
Fort Lee Fire Department
309 Main St
Fort Lee, NJ 07024
(201) 592-3500 Ext 1011

You may want to get your facts correct first, though.

The "Two In, Two Out" rule (29 CFR 1910.134(g)(4)) is an OSHA law, not an NFPA standard.

"Two In, Two Out" applies to interior attacks of structural fires in an IDLH environment. In plain English: It only applies to fighting actual fires, not investigating smells and bells.
 

radiomanNJ1

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I see that you have an opinion on what happened. Nice but possibly not correct.
Has NJ adopted OSHA? If so that is the law.
I have seen and been sent to numerous fires where only one phone call was received. The NFPA currently requires a full response to a commercial alarm and is looking at the possibility of having a cancelation policy.
Do you want to be the ONE man who shows up to a working fire or even a small fire and you have no additional resources? You apparently have faith in maintenance people who sometimes don't speak or understand English. Security guards are not much better. Neither are trained in the art of fire fighting.

Time to stop the cheap in NJ. Both in Fire and EMS.
 

scannersnstuff

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too many horror stories out there about under manning fire response. chauffeur6, you are entitled to your opinion,just like everybody else. you could have expressed it in a nicer manner.
 

kenisned

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2 in and 2 out applies to an IDLH (immediate danger to life and health) environment. Walking into an apartment building where there is an alarm going off is not an IDLH environment.

Osha makes regulations, not laws.

Fire Alarms are mostly nuisance calls, and most paid departments also adjust their response to a fire alarm as opposed to a 911 call reporting a fire. What NFPA standard advocates a "full response" for an automatic fire alarm? It isn't NFPA 1720... so which one would it be? Also, since we are looking up standards, tell me what "full response" means, again, you won't find it in 1720.

I think it is wrong to call out an individual department like was done here... I'm guessing someone has an axe to grind.
 
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DJ88

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chauffeur6, you are entitled to your opinion,just like everybody else. you could have expressed it in a nicer manner.

My sentiments exactly. If either you or I had posted that we probably would have been reprimanded about our attitude, but apparently it's okay for the admins to post whatever they want.
 
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jvdet

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my intent was not to slam FT Lee - I know day time staffing is tough, & Ft Lee isnt the only one that has adopted this response, how was I diss- ing FL, I was just trying to understand their response to what am hearing on their comms; I cant see where i was trying to impose my opinion on them, where do you come off with your negitive comments
a simple explaination of 2in 2out would suffice
I was going to ask about P-OSHA but .....
 
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902

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I see that you have an opinion on what happened. Nice but possibly not correct.
Has NJ adopted OSHA? If so that is the law.
I have seen and been sent to numerous fires where only one phone call was received. The NFPA currently requires a full response to a commercial alarm and is looking at the possibility of having a cancelation policy.
Do you want to be the ONE man who shows up to a working fire or even a small fire and you have no additional resources? You apparently have faith in maintenance people who sometimes don't speak or understand English. Security guards are not much better. Neither are trained in the art of fire fighting.

Time to stop the cheap in NJ. Both in Fire and EMS.
It's time to stop the cheap in every state, not just NJ, but as a long-time public employee, I seriously doubt the political climate is right for that. This ain't the place for politics, although I'd gladly continue that in the RR tavern.

As for NFPA, NFPA cannot "require" anything. It is solely a standards-making organization and has no authority to compell any action. NFPA standards are a peer-driven process. Many RR members, including our "Zerg90" and myself, have commented on 1221. I'm sure other members have even been voting members of certain committees, but the result is a best practice. The teeth in NFPA comes from states legislating the standard, or through indirect influence of insurance rates through the Insurance Standards Office (ISO).

As I stated, most of these are confirmed false alarms or mechanical problems which have been automatically reported through a central station (a "10-45"), but have also been investigated by full-time building staff. An initial report of smoke, fire, or "odor" gets an appropriate response. There is more being read into this than is actually happening.

I would instead refer questions from interested stakeholders to Fire Official Steve Curry (ex-Chief) at the Fire Prevention Bureau (contact available through search engine or PM me and I'd gladly put you in touch).
 

kenisned

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my intent was not to slam FT Lee - I know day time staffing is tough, & Ft Lee isnt the only one that has adopted this response, how was I diss- ing FL, I was just trying to understand their response to what am hearing on their comms; I cant see where i was trying to impose my opinion on them, where do you come off with your negitive comments
a simple explaination of 2in 2out would suffice
I was going to ask about P-OSHA but .....

If your intent was not to slam, you probably want to edit your initial post....
 
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