Ftm-350 aprs

[N0BDW]

Hi folks,

I recently ordered an FTM350 from HamCity (should be here next week). I've heard that it is possible to setup APRS to beacon in the background (ie, without a VFO tuned to that frequency). Does anyone have any experience with this? If it is possible it seems to be an undocumented feature.

Also I've read on this forum that it is not possible to do both APRS and XBand Repeat. This makes sense, if one of the VFOs has to be tuned to the APRS frequency (who wants to cross band repeat APRS?) but I work a lot of public service events where both APRS and cross band repeat would be extremely useful. Maybe if APRS can run without a VFO tuned to it, it'd be possible to use the cross band repeat?

Thanks
Ben

 

[LtDoc]

That's the first I've heard about not needing one 'side' of the radio for APRS. That seems a bit optimistic and I don't think I'd count on it.
Cross banding APRS? Sounds like it'd be possible, don't know how practical though.
Good luck with it.
- 'Doc

 

[alamo5000]

I don't have a 350, but I do use aprs with my kenwood.

You must use 144.39 in order to get 99.9% of the APRS traffic. One side of your radio will be tied up on this band. You have to send and recieve on that frequency, but I assume if you have a large event you can pick another frequency to use...but your world won't be all that big if you do.

If you tune to 144.39 and put your tone at CTCSS 100 you won't hear all the beeps from each packet but keep your volume turned up just in case you get a voice alert.

In the case of your events, I would assume you can designate a station to be the X band repeater and have everyone else run APRS. That being said, I am not sure if you can run Xband and APRS at the same time.

 

[N0BDW]

Thanks for the input. I think I may not have been entirely clear about what I want to do, but the answers are still the same.

What I'd like to do, for example:
145.11 on VFO1
442.42 on VFO2

XBand Repeat between VFO1 and VFO2

Have APRS running in the background on 144.39 (only switches to it momentarily to beacon).

This is probably not possible (multiple parts of it are likely impossible), but I had heard that it was some sort of hidden undocumented feature. Unless I completely misunderstood what I was being told.

 

[alamo5000]

It sounds like its not possible. APRS won't switch 'on and off momentarily' or 'run in the background'. Its either on, or its off.

You could manually turn it on, beacon, and then turn it off, repeat, every 5 to 10 min. It just depends on what kind of information you are beaconing.

If your position is stationary during said events, its not very useful to beacon position information anyway. If your position changes every couple of minutes then you will need to run aprs with beaconing at X interval, but you can't have it both ways.

On a side note, there may be one option that could potentially work. Example:

Select your frequency that you want to use.

145.11 and 442.42 and set your aprs beacon to go out on one or the other. APRS will beacon on whatever frequency you want, its just the 144.39 is the standard national frequency. If you have an event with say 10people that are using APRS just have them all sync their radios.

If you set your APRS beacon to every 1 or 2 minutes eventually some beacons will sneak through unless there is absolutely heavy voice traffic.

In this instance of using something other than 144.39 your aprs send and recieve will be limited to ONLY your group and everyone will have to put up with a lot of beep, beep beep stuff. But even the beeps can be dealt with. On whatever side you have your aprs running have the team set it to CTCSS 100 tone.

In the end it will be say 145.11 with CTCSS 100 on one side (this will be your aprs side) and 442.42 on the other. On your APRS side the CTCSS 100 tone will mute all the beep beep, but it will allow voice through as long as the others use CTCSS100 as well.

You may need to have both sides set to CTCSS 100 to mute all the beeps though because it will after all be 'repeated'...otherwise everyone will have to put up with frequent beep beep beep.

Now the only question is will your radio physically run APRS while also running X band repeat.

I have never tried the above mentioned scenario, but I don't see why it won't work.

 

[N0BDW]

It sounds like its not possible. APRS won't switch 'on and off momentarily' or 'run in the background'. Its either on, or its off.

You could manually turn it on, beacon, and then turn it off, repeat, every 5 to 10 min. It just depends on what kind of information you are beaconing.

If your position is stationary during said events, its not very useful to beacon position information anyway. If your position changes every couple of minutes then you will need to run aprs with beaconing at X interval, but you can't have it both ways.

On a side note, there may be one option that could potentially work. Example:

Select your frequency that you want to use.

145.11 and 442.42 and set your aprs beacon to go out on one or the other. APRS will beacon on whatever frequency you want, its just the 144.39 is the standard national frequency. If you have an event with say 10people that are using APRS just have them all sync their radios.

If you set your APRS beacon to every 1 or 2 minutes eventually some beacons will sneak through unless there is absolutely heavy voice traffic.

In this instance of using something other than 144.39 your aprs send and recieve will be limited to ONLY your group and everyone will have to put up with a lot of beep, beep beep stuff. But even the beeps can be dealt with. On whatever side you have your aprs running have the team set it to CTCSS 100 tone.

In the end it will be say 145.11 with CTCSS 100 on one side (this will be your aprs side) and 442.42 on the other. On your APRS side the CTCSS 100 tone will mute all the beep beep, but it will allow voice through as long as the others use CTCSS100 as well.

You may need to have both sides set to CTCSS 100 to mute all the beeps though because it will after all be 'repeated'...otherwise everyone will have to put up with frequent beep beep beep.

Now the only question is will your radio physically run APRS while also running X band repeat.

I have never tried the above mentioned scenario, but I don't see why it won't work.

I appreciate the detailed reply. It sounds like what I'd really like to do is not possible, but that's OK.

 

[mgolden2]

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Some sites for excellent indepth reviews

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/41539-yaesu-ftm-350-aprs-review.html

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/43215-yaesu-ftm-350-gps-navi-video-review.html

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/40252-yaesu-ftm-350-review.html

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/46997-yaesu-ftm-350-review-summary.html

http://www.worldwidedx.com/vhf-uhf-bands-vhf-uhf-rigs/80459-yaesu-ftm-350ar.html

http://www.worldwidedx.com/vhf-uhf-bands-vhf-uhf-rigs/89466-ftm350ar-cross-band-repeat.html

 

[KB3KBR]

no you can't, the 350 will not go into x-repeat with the aprs modem on. however you can x-repeat aprs, with 144.390 on one side and a 440 on the other, and your local stations on the 440 freq. i have tried it and its been mostly successful.

 

[eahuntley]

FTM-350 Xband and APRS

Congrats on the purchase of your FTM-350. I've actually got two of them, and they're the best mobile rigs I've had so far.

As others have pointed out, there's no way to run APRS and Xband at the same time. I don't know of any radios out there that offer anything like this. It would be great if it were possible, but It seems like you would need a radio with three bands as oppose to the FTM-350 which has two.

As for the APRS running in the background... One of the Firmware upgrades adds something along these lines, but I think it actually just removes the band you're running APRS on from the screen. The end result is that the display only shows one Band, while the other is hidden in the background. I've never tried it, but now that I think about it it would probably be pretty useful for the one I have in my shack at home. I'm assuming this isn't exactly what you wanted though.

The Manuals for the FTM-350 are abhorrently bad. I believe they already updated them once, but they still leave a lot of stuff out. Most people I know that have the radio spent alot of time asking questions in forums. If you end up finding any more questions, feel free to email me if you like(huntley.eric.a@gmail.com)

There's this Yahoo group dedicated to the FTM-350 as well FTM-350R : FTM-350AR
It's a great place to ask all those questions you're bound to have eventually.

 

[N0BDW]

Congrats on the purchase of your FTM-350. I've actually got two of them, and they're the best mobile rigs I've had so far.

As others have pointed out, there's no way to run APRS and Xband at the same time. I don't know of any radios out there that offer anything like this. It would be great if it were possible, but It seems like you would need a radio with three bands as oppose to the FTM-350 which has two.

As for the APRS running in the background... One of the Firmware upgrades adds something along these lines, but I think it actually just removes the band you're running APRS on from the screen. The end result is that the display only shows one Band, while the other is hidden in the background. I've never tried it, but now that I think about it it would probably be pretty useful for the one I have in my shack at home. I'm assuming this isn't exactly what you wanted though.

The Manuals for the FTM-350 are abhorrently bad. I believe they already updated them once, but they still leave a lot of stuff out. Most people I know that have the radio spent alot of time asking questions in forums. If you end up finding any more questions, feel free to email me if you like(huntley.eric.a@gmail.com)

There's this Yahoo group dedicated to the FTM-350 as well FTM-350R : FTM-350AR
It's a great place to ask all those questions you're bound to have eventually.

Thanks!! I am subscribed to that list, and actually someone just asked this same question.
I think you are right about needing 3 VFOs in order to accomplish what I want to accomplish.

I'd love to get another one of these. Currently I rum an 8800 for my "base" and the 350 is mobile. Love the 8800, but the 350 is "radio porn."

 

[eahuntley]

Thanks!! I am subscribed to that list, and actually someone just asked this same question.
I think you are right about needing 3 VFOs in order to accomplish what I want to accomplish.

I'd love to get another one of these. Currently I rum an 8800 for my "base" and the 350 is mobile. Love the 8800, but the 350 is "radio porn."

Actually, that was me that just asked the question... Lately I've had my APRS running pretty constantly on the right band, while I use the left band for everything else. This conversation sparked my interest. It would be nice if i could just ignore the left band all together while APRS is running. I know I've put this radio into single-band mode before, but I now can't find in the manual where it explains how to do it.

I've got one FTM-350 that I use as a base radio and another one that I'm going to eventually install in my vehicle (once I buy a new truck). The Radio I had before this was an FT-8500(made around 1996) and it was probably the most complicated and confusing radio known to man. I had it for three years, and I never got to the point where I could use it without opening the manual. I would have been downright dangerous had I installed it in my car. The FTM-350, on the other hand, is so intuitive pretty much anyone can figure out the basics without needing the manual. It's a really nice change. I've been using my second one at events when I know there's going to be newly licensed amateurs or people that are interested in getting license there and it's always a big hit. The FT-8500 probably would have had the New Hams running away in droves..

 

[N0BDW]

Actually, that was me that just asked the question... Lately I've had my APRS running pretty constantly on the right band, while I use the left band for everything else. This conversation sparked my interest. It would be nice if i could just ignore the left band all together while APRS is running. I know I've put this radio into single-band mode before, but I now can't find in the manual where it explains how to do it.

I've got one FTM-350 that I use as a base radio and another one that I'm going to eventually install in my vehicle (once I buy a new truck). The Radio I had before this was an FT-8500(made around 1996) and it was probably the most complicated and confusing radio known to man. I had it for three years, and I never got to the point where I could use it without opening the manual. I would have been downright dangerous had I installed it in my car. The FTM-350, on the other hand, is so intuitive pretty much anyone can figure out the basics without needing the manual. It's a really nice change. I've been using my second one at events when I know there's going to be newly licensed amateurs or people that are interested in getting license there and it's always a big hit. The FT-8500 probably would have had the New Hams running away in droves..

Yeah the 350 is definitely eye candy. I had quite the gathering of onlookers as a friend programmed mine after the ARES meeting last night. People really seem to like the large display.

 

[KC2YTC]

Figured it out. It's not as good as we thought, Ben.

The officially-worded spec says "APRS® will operate in the background, on single band."

So, if you set the radio to be a single band radio (not sure how to do it through the panel... it's a checkbox in the software), and turn on APRS, it will operate "in the background".

Seems to work for me when I set it up. But I actually like hearing the squawks, so I put it back the other way. Plus, I don't always run APRS, so having it in dual band mode is more useful, especially considering how trivial it is to turn the modem on and off.

 

[N0BDW]

Figured it out. It's not as good as we thought, Ben.

The officially-worded spec says "APRS® will operate in the background, on single band."

So, if you set the radio to be a single band radio (not sure how to do it through the panel... it's a checkbox in the software), and turn on APRS, it will operate "in the background".

Seems to work for me when I set it up. But I actually like hearing the squawks, so I put it back the other way. Plus, I don't always run APRS, so having it in dual band mode is more useful, especially considering how trivial it is to turn the modem on and off.

Yep, thanks for chiming in. If you press and hold the forward or back button on the control head it will switch to single band display.

 

[alamo5000]

If you dont like all the squawks, then on your aprs side put in ctcss 100 and leave the volume up.

if someone is in simplex range of you then they can call you on the aprs side with voice (provided they also use ctcss 100). After the initial contact you tune over to something else to carry on the conversation.

Just turning the volume down kills a huge function of aprs.

By the way I dont use a 350...I went with the kenwood d710a. my radio will actually alert me when a station running aprs is within simplex range.

 

[eahuntley]

. my radio will actually alert me when a station running aprs is within simplex range.

So will the 350...

 

[eahuntley]

Figured it out. It's not as good as we thought, Ben.

The officially-worded spec says "APRS® will operate in the background, on single band."

So, if you set the radio to be a single band radio (not sure how to do it through the panel... it's a checkbox in the software), and turn on APRS, it will operate "in the background".

Seems to work for me when I set it up. But I actually like hearing the squawks, so I put it back the other way. Plus, I don't always run APRS, so having it in dual band mode is more useful, especially considering how trivial it is to turn the modem on and off.

For most situations it's not a very handy feature, but I can see the occasional use for it. Coming up in May I'll be running Comms out of a SAG vehicle for a long rage Bicycle ride. APRS will be useful so Net Control can keep track of where we are but I can't see myself using it for anything else during that event, so it might be kind of nice to not even have it on the display.

For normal day to day operation though, when you never know when you might get a message or something, I agree it's probably better to stay in dual band display mode.

 

[N0BDW]

For most situations it's not a very handy feature, but I can see the occasional use for it. Coming up in May I'll be running Comms out of a SAG vehicle for a long rage Bicycle ride. APRS will be useful so Net Control can keep track of where we are but I can't see myself using it for anything else during that event, so it might be kind of nice to not even have it on the display.

For normal day to day operation though, when you never know when you might get a message or something, I agree it's probably better to stay in dual band display mode.

Supposedly messages still come through (popups still work) when in single band display mode.

I have not been able to get this to work (at all) though. When I am in single band display mode, no beacons are sent out (either through the automatic beacon system or when I press the B-TX button).

 

[eahuntley]

Supposedly messages still come through (popups still work) when in single band display mode.

I have not been able to get this to work (at all) though. When I am in single band display mode, no beacons are sent out (either through the automatic beacon system or when I press the B-TX button).

I had a similar experience when I was first trying to get it to work. The first thing I tried was just clicking the "single band display" box in the RT systems software and uploading the information to the radio again. When I did it this way, it was like the APRS wasn't on at all. Once I figured out that holding down the FWD or BCK button would toggle between dual and single band display I went back into dual display that way, and then used the same method to go back into single band display. Now everything works fine, and the APRS info is still displayed on the main screen, but only in very small characters.

 

[N0BDW]

I had a similar experience when I was first trying to get it to work. The first thing I tried was just clicking the "single band display" box in the RT systems software and uploading the information to the radio again. When I did it this way, it was like the APRS wasn't on at all. Once I figured out that holding down the FWD or BCK button would toggle between dual and single band display I went back into dual display that way, and then used the same method to go back into single band display. Now everything works fine, and the APRS info is still displayed on the main screen, but only in very small characters.

hm.. I don't have the programming software, I am using the control head for everything (although KC2YTC was nice enough to program the local repeaters for me using the software). So I'm not sure what is different between what you are doing and what I'm doing.