GMRS license questions

[Marchboom]

A friend just purchased 6 GMRS handheld radios to be used for his company of 40 employees. Only 4 people work on any one day. None of the employees have a GMRS license. Does the FCC issue a "group" license to companies so everyone can use the radios or must everyone get their own license? I'm under the impression that everyone must have their own license.

This friend set up his radios so it displays channel 0 (never heard of this channel) and the frequency it is using is the GMRS frequency that is assigned to channel 7. I assume this is also not allowed.

I'm asking these questions on this forum because the FCC will never answer their phones.

Thanks.

 

[MTS2000des]

There are no "group" licenses, only individual licenses. Licenses do cover immediate family members related by blood or law (marriage, children, etc). Anyone not immediately related needs to obtain their own station licenses. You can configure your authorized subscriber radios to display whatever you wish, but can only operate on GMRS/FRS frequencies per the rules.

 

[Hans13]

Unless an individual falls under the specific relationship to the licensee enumerated in Part 95, quoted below, they must obtain their own GMRS license. If the friend does not need long distance (the use of a repeater), then the friend could get some good quality Part 95 certified FRS radios and everyone be covered through license by rule.

§ 95.1705
...
( c )
...
( 2 ) Any individual who holds an individual license may allow his or her immediate family members to operate his or her GMRS station or stations. Immediate family members are the licensee's spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents, stepparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and in-laws.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[mmckenna]

A friend just purchased 6 GMRS handheld radios to be used for his company of 40 employees.

Which radios, exactly, did he purchase?

Some can be used under FRS rules if they stick on the right channels.

 

[Marchboom]

Which radios, exactly, did he purchase?

Some can be used under FRS rules if they stick on the right channels.

The radios are Samcom, FPCN30A. He needs a little more power than what FRS provides but he is transmitting on channel 7 (although it indicates channel 0 on the display).

 

[chief21]

The radios are Samcom, FPCN30A. He needs a little more power than what FRS provides but he is transmitting on channel 7 (although it indicates channel 0 on the display).

Since the last Part 95 Rulemaking, FRS users now have access to the original 14 FRS channels, as well as the 8 original GMRS simplex channels. Most newer FRS radios are now configured with all 22 channels, some at 2w and some at 500 mw, per the rules.
The advantages of the GMRS license are higher allowable power levels, the ability to use external antennas, and the ability to use repeaters.

 

[AK9R]

Does the FCC issue a "group" license to companies

The FCC can issue a Part 90 license to a business and all employees can operate radios under the business license.

However, the FCC will not issue a business license for use in the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) as GMRS, which is Part 95E, is for personal use only. Some businesses were grandfathered into GMRS years ago, but no new business licenses are issued for GMRS.

 

[mmckenna]

The radios are Samcom, FPCN30A. He needs a little more power than what FRS provides but he is transmitting on channel 7 (although it indicates channel 0 on the display).

Those radios are Part 90 only and not legal for use under GMRS or FRS.

FCC - OET TCB Form 731 Grant of Equipment Authorization

 

[mmckenna]

The radios are Samcom, FPCN30A. He needs a little more power than what FRS provides but he is transmitting on channel 7 (although it indicates channel 0 on the display).

So, since these are not GMRS or FRS radios, does he know what "Channel 0" really is, or did someone program that for a GMRS frequency?

 

[Marchboom]

So, since these are not GMRS or FRS radios, does he know what "Channel 0" really is, or did someone program that for a GMRS frequency?

That I don't know but he is not really radio savvy so he probably had someone modify the radios for him.

 

[SurgePGH]

Doesn't matter what the display shows. It could be listed as OnlyFans0. Matters not.

 

[Hans13]

The FCC can issue a Part 90 license to a business and all employees can operate radios under the business license.

However, the FCC will not issue a business license for use in the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) as GMRS, which is Part 95E, is for personal use only. Some businesses were grandfathered into GMRS years ago, but no new business licenses are issued for GMRS.

GMRS and FRS can be used for businesses. It is not only for personal use (unlike Amateur).

 

[mmckenna]

That I don't know but he is not really radio savvy so he probably had someone modify the radios for him.

That's a red flag, then.

We know that some of these CCR's come programmed from the factory with random frequencies. Sometimes those random frequencies match up with legit public safety users in this country. Or worse, they have 70cm amateur radio frequencies in them, which will give some angry/sad ham a coronary. It would make me nervous to use those radios without knowing exactly what they are programmed for. Unfortunately it can be highly likely that someone just used them straight out of the box, or some youtoob radio expert programmed them for something random without understanding what they were doing.

Only -legal- way to do this is to get a proper FCC issued license for a coordinated UHF frequency. That'll cost a few hundred bucks and take someone knowledgeable programming the radios to make sure everything else is removed. I suspect that someone that would purchase radios without understanding what they were buying wouldn't put the effort into following FCC rules.

If they were going to ignore rules (not saying they should….) there are safer places to put these radios where they would likely go unnoticed. Just saying if one was to program their scanner for 464.500 or 464.550, they'd probably find a lot of users on those freq's that probably were not legally licensed, either. Not saying you should program the radios there. They should get properly licensed….

 

[Hans13]

The radios are Samcom, FPCN30A. He needs a little more power than what FRS provides but he is transmitting on channel 7 (although it indicates channel 0 on the display).

Is 2W vs 5W (main FRS channels) going to really make that much of a difference in the use-case distances your friend is anticipating? If the answer is an honest affirmative, then the friend really needs to go the Part 90 business license and equipment route.

Edit: I just verified that FRS channel 7 (462.7125 MHz) is a 2W FRS channel. So, is 5W (GMRS) vs 2W (FRS) going to make or break here?

 

[Hans13]

The FCC can issue a Part 90 license to a business and all employees can operate radios under the business license.

However, the FCC will not issue a business license for use in the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) as GMRS, which is Part 95E, is for personal use only. Some businesses were grandfathered into GMRS years ago, but no new business licenses are issued for GMRS.

Part 95 says, "The operator of a GMRS station may use that station for two-way plain language voice communications with other GMRS stations and with FRS units concerning personal or business activities."

Federal Register :: Request Access

FRS is not prohibited from business activities.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Marchboom]

Will a GMRS radio always put out 5w or can you reduce the wattage to 2w and then be legal as it is now basically a FRS radio that requires no lic?

 

[nd5y]

Will a GMRS radio always put out 5w or can you reduce the wattage to 2w and then be legal as it is now basically a FRS radio that requires no lic?

It depends on the radio model.

 

[Hans13]

Will a GMRS radio always put out 5w or can you reduce the wattage to 2w and then be legal as it is now basically a FRS radio that requires no lic?

No because for a GMRS radio to be legal to use as an FRS radio, it must be type accepted as an FRS radio. The FCC is no longer allowing a single radio to be both. Some older radios are type accepted so that they transmit a lower wattage on FRS and higher on GMRS.

A GMRS licensee can go lower wattage (as can an FRS user) as long as the radio maintains frequency integrity. However, the GMRS licensee would still be required to ID with their call sign. In order to not have to ID, the GMRS licensee would have to use a type accepted FRS radio.

Edit: So, a GMRS operator and an FRS operator are permitted to communicate with each other but the GMRS operator is technically supposed to comply with their license ID requirement.

 

[mmckenna]

Will a GMRS radio always put out 5w or can you reduce the wattage to 2w and then be legal as it is now basically a FRS radio that requires no lic?

Wouldn't apply to that radio as it has other features that would void it from being FRS legal:
Removable antennas are not legal under FRS rules, doesn't matter what power level it is running.
FRS radios can't have controls that let the user make the radio operate outside the limitations of FRS rules, like selectable power that exceeds the rules.

The guy bought the wrong radios. This is one of the issues with selling equipment like this on Amazon. Just looking at the reviews it shows that the people buying them have zero understanding of what they purchased.

The only ways to make this legal are:
Get an FCC issued license for Part 90 frequencies. It's not hard, but isn't free.
Get rid of the radios and get FRS, MURS or some 900MHz FHSS radios.

Or ignore all the rules and have them do whatever the hell they want.

There are no loopholes that are going to make this legal. He either gets the proper FCC License or he doesn't.

 

[Marchboom]

Wouldn't apply to that radio as it has other features that would void it from being FRS legal:
Removable antennas are not legal under FRS rules, doesn't matter what power level it is running.
FRS radios can't have controls that let the user make the radio operate outside the limitations of FRS rules, like selectable power that exceeds the rules.

The guy bought the wrong radios. This is one of the issues with selling equipment like this on Amazon. Just looking at the reviews it shows that the people buying them have zero understanding of what they purchased.

The only ways to make this legal are:
Get an FCC issued license for Part 90 frequencies. It's not hard, but isn't free.
Get rid of the radios and get FRS, MURS or some 900MHz FHSS radios.

Or ignore all the rules and have them do whatever the hell they want.

There are no loopholes that are going to make this legal. He either gets the proper FCC License or he doesn't.

"The guy bought the wrong radios." That's what I thought. Like I said, he's not very radio savvy but you would have thought he would have done a little research before buying them. I'll give him all the info you and the others here have provided and see what he does. Thanks.