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Going NMO?

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Ensnared

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I have been very pleased with the performance of my Tram 3500 magnetic CB antenna. However, I am going to replace this unit with another rig.

I am wanting to buy a Laird or other brand NMO CB antenna.

However, I am confused about which Tram NMO mount to buy. I am assuming this should be this one. TRAM 1267R 5.5 Magnet-NMO Mounting with Rubber Boot (1267R) from Solid Signal

I looked at one that actually said "CB" in the description. https://www.amazon.com/Tram-1265R-Magnet-Antenna-Warranty/dp/B00RC3QUBQ

I looked at one mount that had 7 feet of coax. Since I am aware of the formula between the CB frequency range and length of coax, generally 17 feet, I am getting a bit confused.

I could use some help.

I don't like the stinger on the Tram 3500 because I cannot unscrew the antenna from the mount.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Larsen NMO-27B B is black, otherwise you can get one with a chrome whip.

The cable length does not matter, that is a typical length provided. Just be sure to test, tune, cut, test, tune properly.

You want the VSWR tuned to center channel. If it is too high on ch 40 and lower on ch1 the whip is too long. Trim small pieces.

Test with all doors and hoods closed and in an open spot without overhead wires, poles etc.

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trentbob

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I concur that the length of the coax is not an issue but you're going to want to make sure 17 foot is enough, it should be. RG58 is fine as there's no signal loss on that short of an application on 11 meters.

I use 2 nmo mounts for my two scanners in the car but I use the black lip mount on each side of my trunk with low loss coax for my quarter wave 7 - 800 megahertz whip and my new design Larson tri-band. I would think it's best with a CB to use the magnetic mount directly in the center of the trunk or even better the center of your roof as long as you're going to go to all the trouble of trimming and tuning but you know that.

Of course with an nmo mount it would be great if you could drill a hole but I understand the the mechanics of not wanting to do that LOL.

Let us know how it goes.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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A problem with magnetic mount CB antennas is that at 27MHz there is not enough capacitive coupling between the antenna and the vehicle body, so the counterpoise current flows on the outside of the coaxial cable which is inductive, instead of directly to the vehicle body. The VSWR will be touchy and the efficiency will be poor. You also have a risk of trimming the antenna rod too much while chasing the dragon.

The solution is to drill a nice hole in top dead center on the roof of vehicle. You will have best working CB in town without the hassle of a 100 watt "foot warmer".

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AC9BX

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For a single reasonably matched and tuned antenna cable length does not matter. Shorter is always better for less loss and using less saves money. High quality coax for a short distance won't be much loss at 27MHz CB, about .2 dB for 10 feet, barely detectable. When doing other things, multiple antennas, impedance matching, phase arrangements, then cable length is critical. And by critical I mean if you need 17 feet, 16.8 feet will not work as expected, and it is for a specific cable.
 

trentbob

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So there you go, you've got some pretty experienced people here... basically saying the same thing. Don't know if your car is old or if it's a two-year lease but if you were to drill a hole in the center of your roof which is the best way to go with an nmo for CB, a good body shop could make that disappear when you hand the car back.

My first car when I was 16 had more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I one of my cars I simply screwed a nice new 800 Mhz quarter wave on the NMO and told the new seller it was ready for a cellphone. My big E350 van, I salvaged all the nice Teflon NMO kits and plugged the holes with NMO plugs made for that purpose . The dealer I traded in at did not care a bit that there were three rubber plugs in the roof.

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trentbob

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Haha, I would always get those little factory paint bottles with the brush and paint the little plugs.
 

prcguy

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Yes, mag mounts can be ok for VHF/UHF but for CB and below capacitive coupling is a problem. I've done experiments adding capacitance to a mag mount at HF frequencies and got results similar to a perminant grounded mount all the way down to 80m using a thin sheet of copper glued to an 8 1/2" X 11" refrigerator magnet. For CB you can get away with a much smaller version maybe 6" square and bonded to the ground side of the antenna mount with wide flexible braid.

Otherwise just put in a permanent roof mount and enjoy the good performance.


A problem with magnetic mount CB antennas is that at 27MHz there is not enough capacitive coupling between the antenna and the vehicle body, so the counterpoise current flows on the outside of the coaxial cable which is inductive, instead of directly to the vehicle body. The VSWR will be touchy and the efficiency will be poor. You also have a risk of trimming the antenna rod too much while chasing the dragon.

The solution is to drill a nice hole in top dead center on the roof of vehicle. You will have best working CB in town without the hassle of a 100 watt "foot warmer".

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Yes, mag mounts can be ok for VHF/UHF but for CB and below capacitive coupling is a problem. I've done experiments adding capacitance to a mag mount at HF frequencies and got results similar to a perminant grounded mount all the way down to 80m using a thin sheet of copper glued to an 8 1/2" X 11" refrigerator magnet. For CB you can get away with a much smaller version maybe 6" square and bonded to the ground side of the antenna mount with wide flexible braid.

Otherwise just put in a permanent roof mount and enjoy the good performance.

Drill Baby Drill!
 

FiveFilter

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I use several CB antennas on three different vehicles at the present time, and there is nary a hole to be found in any of their roofs. It rains a lot in my neck of the woods, and you could get arrested for putting a hole in the roof :)

I prefer and use magnet mounts for my CB antennas, and I can place them at the most advantageous location on any given vehicle. This is usually way up there on the roof, but not necessarily. For instance, because the roof of my Jeep is fiberglass, I simply place the magnet in the middle of the hood, which provides excellent all-direction performance both on the road and in the field. On another vehicle where I sometimes have to drive it into a low-ceiling parking garage, I put the magnet antenna on the trunk.

When I'm finished using the CB on my vehicles, which is usually on highway trips, I simply pull them off until the next trip.

Although a hole-in-the-roof might provide a theoretical advantage, the difference is hardly measurable. I've seen something like a 0.2 dB differential between a hole-in-the-roof and a magnet-mount antenna, which isn't enough to mention IMHO.
 

mikewazowski

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My two way and amateur antennas are all drilled but I keep a mag-mount CB antenna and a CB stashed away in the vehicle for long trips.
 

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A few things in no particular order or reason;

The 'best' place to mount any antenna on a vehicle is as as high, or on the top, and as 'centered' as you can get it. Mainly so that things to the side (lower mounting spot) don't 'block' signals, and so that the radiation pattern is as symmetrically 'even' as you can get it. That's always going to be a 'ballpark' thingy, there's nothing exact about it. And since stuff around the antenna to a ridiculous distance will affect that 'symmetrical' thingy, don't waste a lot of worry on it.
Aluminum? Got another magnet you can place under that aluminum panel so that it holds the mag-mount on? The stronger the better, naturally. Got a broke microwave? They almost all have at least one large magnet in'em.
Bigger is better with antennas until you have to register it with the FAA, and can't go around airports. "That's stupid!"... yeah, but still a fact.
The type/size of feed line makes very little difference until the run length gets huge. Using 50 ohm stuff is nice but you can use 75 ohm stuff too. Just means a slight re-tune of the antenna system. I'd stay away from RG-174 and similar coax, just too hard to put connectors on. Other than that, it's smaller size comes in handy. It does have power limits. Hard-line? You gotta be kidding, unless you have a lot of it and nothing else. Just no need.
How about re-sale value if there are holes in the vehicle? If 'they' make an issue of an antenna or two, find another dealer. They 'fix' that sort of thing all the time and it means nothing, just another way of making YOUR buck theirs.
Where to put that radio in the vehicle? Good question, and it varies with each individual person. If you can put it where you want, you're lucky.

That's all I can think of off hand. After you make mistakes it's easier to remember this sort of stuff. To be honest, I think I've made almost every mistake you can think of. That's not bragging!
 

mmckenna

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I have been very pleased with the performance of my Tram 3500 magnetic CB antenna. However, I am going to replace this unit with another rig.

I am wanting to buy a Laird or other brand NMO CB antenna.

Laird and Larsen will serve you well. I have a 30 year old Larsen NMO-27 that has been through a lot over the years, tree branch strikes, low parking garages, one bird strike and untold miles of washboarded roads. Investing in quality equipment will never steer you wrong.

However, I am confused about which Tram NMO mount to buy. I am assuming this should be this one. TRAM 1267R 5.5 Magnet-NMO Mounting with Rubber Boot (1267R) from Solid Signal

I gotta ask, and don't take offense by this, but why the hell would you buy a nice antenna like the Laird and then slap it on a Cheap Chinese Tram/Browning mount? That's sort of like buying a brand new Corvette and putting some cheap discount tires on it. Sort of blows the whole system.

Trust me, you can easily do better than Tram. And you really should. No point in buying a nice antenna if you are going to use a cheap mount. And here's why...
My dad was putting a radio in his new truck. He bought all the parts and brought it over to my place so I could help. He showed up with a Tram/Browning (same difference) NMO mount. I was disappointed and offered him one of my Larsen mounts, but he was OK with what he had. We cut the connector off the end to route the cable and I threw it on my bench. We put a new connector on and everything was OK. The Tram/Browning coax seems to be OK. Not super stuff, but as good as the low end stuff I've seen from US based companies. The NMO mount looked OK, again, not great, but looks like it'll work. Fast forward a few days and I remember the cut off connector on my bench. I decided to dissect it to see what the quality was like. I won't say I was disappointed, because I figured it would be trash. They didn't let me down. The only thing holding the connector on the cable was the strain relief and the soldered center conductor. That's not enough. The outer jacket was not crimped, just stuffed in the connector and it looked like someone hit it with a center punch to hold the jacket in place until they put the strain relief moulding over it. Pure junk. And it's not enough of a cost savings to say "it was worth it". Glad we cut it off.
ME2XhBH.jpg


Seriously, you can do better, and if the few buck difference between the cheap-azz Tram and a better name brand (non-Chinese) mount is too much, at least get the connector replaced.

I looked at one that actually said "CB" in the description. https://www.amazon.com/Tram-1265R-Magnet-Antenna-Warranty/dp/B00RC3QUBQ

Marketing. There is no difference between a "CB" NMO mount and one that isn't. The nice thing about NMO mounts is that they are standardized and an NMO mount from any manufacturer should work with any NMO base antenna. Get a decent NMO mag mount if that's what you need.

I looked at one mount that had 7 feet of coax. Since I am aware of the formula between the CB frequency range and length of coax, generally 17 feet, I am getting a bit confused.

CB'ers have been able to perpetuate this "17 feet of coax" thing for decades now. Not sure how they've done it, but they have, and my hats off to them.
But it's pure B.S. The correct length of cable you need is the length required to get from the antenna to your radio. No more, no less.

The idea behind specific lengths of coax is that it can "hide" poorly tuned antennas from the radio. It doesn't fix anything, just hides a poorly tuned/installed antenna from the radio. That might make the SWR read low, but it doesn't mean the antenna is working right.
Anyway, 17-18 feet of coax will do that, but it doesn't take into account the velocity of propagation of the coaxial cable, and often leads to someone rolling up a bunch of unused coax and creating a choke.

Get a mount with enough cable to get from your mounting location to the antenna. That's all you need. Mount and tune your antenna properly and you'll be good to go. Any CB'er that will tell you that a specific length of cable is required for a single antenna doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

I could use some help.

I don't like the stinger on the Tram 3500 because I cannot unscrew the antenna from the mount.

Like the others, I'd say go with a permanent mount NMO, it'll work better in the long run. It does NOT detract from vehicle resale value. I've installed lots of NMO mounts on leased vehicles without issue when traded in. They will not leak if installed properly. They provide proper grounding for the antenna. They look better. You won't have to worry about the coaxial cable getting pinched/damaged in doors/windows.

I understand that sometimes a mag mount is the right tool for the job, but it's pretty rare. I keep one in my shop for testing, but I'd never use one as a permanent solution.
 

Ensnared

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The main reason I would use a base magnetic mount is one simple factor, the rubber boot. I have looked and looked, but have been unable to find any antenna that offers a 5 inch magnet with a rubber boot. I am not using my car. I am using my wife's car. She does not want the roof to be scratched. At present, my Larsen Tri-band works. Since I bought one with 58U, I can fix the BNC when it fails by using a solderless twist on. I am low tech. I am quite certain that the NMO guts of the antenna can be modified to accept a better coax, but I have not found any adventurous radio technicians yet. Thank you for all of your input.
 

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Understood. Better to keep the wife happy.

The rubber boot on the mag mount can help prevent some damage, but it won't prevent scratches. Some put a plastic bag under the magnet base for short term installs. Might be an option.
Best thing to do is to clean both the mag mount and the roof before installing it. Use a buffer between the base and the roof. Attach/remove carefully. Issue usually comes from bits of metal that stick to the magnet and get pulled across the paint when removing the antenna. Rubber boots will not prevent that.
 
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