Ground Rod "Issues"

[blantonl]

Ok, so I go to Radio Shack and purchase an 8ft ground rod.

1 Problem.

Here in South Texas, most of us in the hill country have about 3 inches of topsoil, and then it is solid rock from there.....

So, anyone ever tackled this? Short of blasting a hole, how can I appropriate deploy a ground for an HF antenna and a discone to be mounted on the chimney.

Any tips or tricks?

 

[kg4icg]

Hey Lindsay, Go to the nearest United Rentals, Sunbelt or any tools rental place that rent out a electric 60 lb jack hammer. You might need a ladder for this project, and a extra set of hands. Position the ground rod in the receiver where you insert the chisel or point that comes with the rental. and squeeze the trigger. Gravity and the force of a 60 lb electric jackhammer will have it in the ground in roughly 5 to 10 minutes and no aching back muscles.

R Collins

p.s. RF companys installing antenna towers do the same thing when installing ground rods for the sight.

 

[tonsoffun]

Hey Lindsay, Go to the nearest United Rentals, Sunbelt or any tools rental place that rent out a electric 60 lb jack hammer. You might need a ladder for this project, and a extra set of hands. Position the ground rod in the receiver where you insert the chisel or point that comes with the rental. and squeeze the trigger. Gravity and the force of a 60 lb electric jackhammer will have it in the ground in roughly 5 to 10 minutes and no aching back muscles.

R Collins

p.s. RF companys installing antenna towers do the same thing when installing ground rods for the sight.

Ya, but he will hit rock in 2 seconds. I myself have done this but with regular dirt.
You would need a drill first if you want to go into the rock.
Take care

 

[RevGary]

Lindsay - before you do anything, contact your local Power Company or any Licensed Electrician to get THEIR professional recommendation. It could save you a rental fee...remember, ROCK is not an adequate ground, just moist dirt or moist sand. There may be certian ways to construct a ground field using the available topsoil over a wide area laterally rather than down vertically. Check with them to see what their code is and adapt to your own situation with the HF antenna.

 

[n4voxgill]

there is no good ground where we live Lindsay. I wanted a 30 foot deep ground rod and called my friendly electrician to come put it in for me. He came in and said we would be lucky to get 8 feet before hitting solid rock. We lucked out, he put in four 8 foot ground rods, about 10 feet apart, creating a square. He then connected them with #6 wire and ran it into my radio shack. It is about the best you can do with our lechee or how ever you spell the concrete rock we have.

When it is flooding, makes a good ground. Right now it just makes a good counterpoise/ground. You will need an electric driver to get the rods down, and I hope you can get the whole 8 feet down, but it will take more than one to have anything resembling a decent ground.

 

[DaveH]

From the GWU course I took on Grounding/Bonding/Lightening Protection
(what I can remember of it...was back in 1986), a technique used by
the military to increase ground conductivity involved wires buried as
best they could be (spread out I think). The ground around these had
to be kept damp, and sometimes copper sulphate was used to increase
conductivty. I definitely don't recommend the Cu2S04 part, it is poisonous
and damaging to the environment. Salt might work but could render the
contact area useless for growing anything, plus there is the corrosion
aspect. Perhaps rods or wires buried and spead out (how big would
depend on the application) plus keeping it damp would be the way to
go.

Now, about how to answer your neighbor's questions when they see
you watering your "ground"....

Dave

 

[Audiodave1]

Hi everyone,
Based on my reading on military type "field ops" manuals for communications, 3 shorter ground rods are far more effective than 1 long one...especially if you only have a few feet of good top-soil.

Did I mention they are easier to install?

Dave

 

[Randall]

do you have a well? a well would have a good ground you could use.

 

[KC4ZEX]

Dave has the right idea especially for the hf vertical. Just go somewhere you can get a roll of wire at least 10 gauge and start from the base of the hf antenna and bury the wire 3 or 4 inches deep out 20ft. or so in all directions. Probably 8 or 10 will be sufficent .

 

[jhooten]

In a previous life I had the pleasurable duty to pound ground stakes all over Fort Hood. The 1/2" copper covered steel one are good conductors but a PITA to drive in. Go to an electrical supply company an see if you can find one that is made for 5/8" galvanized solid steel. The ones we had the most success with had a big head to pound on and a hardened chisel like point.

Another trick besides the rental jack hammer is to start the install with a fence post driver. The pipe kind with handles and some extra weight that slides over the top of the post and works like a slide hammer. Works a lot better than trying to stand on a ladder to hammer the first few feet in.

 

[KR4BD]

Here in Central KY, there is also much rock just under the topsoil. Many homes built here have their basements or crawl spaces blasted out before construction can begin. In my case, the area blasted cleared the rock a few feet around the basement walls, so putting in ground rods within a foot or two of the house was not much of a problem. You might check for areas within a few feet around your home to see if the ground is cleared from any pre-construction blasting.

I strongly suggest you avoid RS ground rods as they are quite flimsy (unless things have changed in the last few years). A few years ago, I got two 3/4" diameter, 8' chisell pointed rods from Home Depot's Electrical Department for not much more than the 1/4" diameter, 6' rods RS used to sell. They have larger ones, too, if you want to go that route.

I used the step ladder method to pound them in with a sledge hammer, which took a little work, but the deed was accomplished. Using a fence (or sign) post driver would probably be easier if you can get one to use.

 

[scansomd]

Ground rod - where to purchase?

Lindsay,

I'm glad you brought this up; I am in the process of moving my outdoor antenna setup and was just thinking about the best way to ground it.

Now that we have all discussed the need to ground our systems, where are the best locations to purchase one?

I have read Radio Shack and Lowes. The Radio Shack catalog number 15-530 seems to be a little short to me. Do any of us have experience with any online vendors that possess quality grounding rods? Other sources?

 

[jhooten]

Ok guys don't hate for what I'm about to tell you, but... My current ground rod is a 10 foot section of 1" copper pipe the plumber was going to throw away because of a few dents and some discoloration. I put is in with my bare hands. Did I memtion my yard is 12' of sugar sand over a layer of clay. The problem is the soil conductivity is very low. After the ground rod was installed I ran the condenser drain from the A/C system over to the ground rod to keep it watered. (Yes the A/C runs almost year round. It was 31 this morning and is 81 right now.) Just another idea to help improve your ground system.

 

[specman]

Lindsay;

I would treat this issue as two different requirements.

1) Safety ground -I would first of all contact the applicable Electrical Code authority for your area for thier recommendations.. this is for the safety requirements of your setup. I'm not sure what they'll suggest since it could vary widely on circumstance. Seemingly if you have a basement than there should some area close to the house that would permit a grounding rod.

2) RF ground - Next, since the saftey ground will likely not provide a decent counterpoise for your HF needs, use some of the suggestions already provided to create one. These are normally a series of ground radials spread out from the center of radiation (or close to it). Your RF and safety grounds should be tied together.

 

[WX5JCH]

We have that same problem here in Oklahoma. Our electric company runs "grids" about 2-3 ft underground and run a cable from it, they just put one in at the place I work at and it fixed our problems.

 

[car2back]

We have that same problem here in Oklahoma. Our electric company runs "grids" about 2-3 ft underground and run a cable from it, they just put one in at the place I work at and it fixed our problems.

I think I have to agree with this suggestion. I do part-time work for my father as an apprentice electrician and have had a little experiance with these. very suitable for the crappy soil we have here in OK!

 

[jimdana1942]

Ok, so I go to Radio Shack and purchase an 8ft ground rod.

1 Problem.

Here in South Texas, most of us in the hill country have about 3 inches of topsoil, and then it is solid rock from there.....

So, anyone ever tackled this? Short of blasting a hole, how can I appropriate deploy a ground for an HF antenna and a discone to be mounted on the chimney.

Any tips or tricks?

I've done this before: Buy three ground rods, bury them horizontally in the ground in a "T" shape pattern, tied together with #8 wire. Pack the soil tightly over them and keep them moist if you are in an arrid area.

 

[scansomd]

Grounding rod close out sale at Rat Shack

I just went to my local Rat Shack (Lexington Park MD) to pick up a grounding rod. My intention was to purchase their four foot grounding rod (15-530) list price $13.00.

They asked me if I was interested in their eight foot model. (I didn't know they had an eight foot model, it isn't on the www site.) It turns out they are discontinuing the eight foot model.

Price for the eight foot model: Including tax $7.85. My local Radio Shack has five more of them in stock.

 

[radio-joe]

ok

Well see if this website helps freewebs.com/radio-joe