Grounding my radio
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ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
One would think that you would just need to ram a ground rod into the ground and bond to it and you're done; in fact that might not be a very good idea. As I understand it, many states have laws and regulations regarding proper electrical bonding.
We had a LOT of discussion of this topic, I believe, in the Antennas forum in the past. Bottom line, to do it right, you need to know what the requirements are for the NY area. I'd do some research first.
73 Mike
We had a LOT of discussion of this topic, I believe, in the Antennas forum in the past. Bottom line, to do it right, you need to know what the requirements are for the NY area. I'd do some research first.
73 Mike
gbriden
Member
I am in the same boat with grounding my station is a bit more complicated I have 3 radios
Icom PCR-1500, Realistic DX394, and Grundig S750. but my listening post is on the second floor so running a wire to Ground rod would be 50 feet or more this is NOT really an option and I know for sure I am getting some RF into my signal.
Icom PCR-1500, Realistic DX394, and Grundig S750. but my listening post is on the second floor so running a wire to Ground rod would be 50 feet or more this is NOT really an option and I know for sure I am getting some RF into my signal.
I'm no electrician, but I would stay away from running a wire into the outlet, for a few reasons,mostly fire lol, If anything run a seperate wire back to your home's electrical panel area, you should have easy access to the ground system there, or you could then contact an electrician to do the final connection..
Do what ka3jjz said, depending on your area, their could be special rules/regs that apply..if anything just call some random electrical company/electrician and ask them about the area..and then see what they will charge you since your already on the phone
Whatever you do, make sure you do it right, or you could end up doing damage to your radio...better to pay someone to do it right if your unsure, then fry your gear.
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rfradioconsult
Member
What is your grounding objective? Gounding is one of the most subjective topics in all of radio and is one of the most understood; define what you are expecting from your "ground". For simplicity divide your requirements in three catagories:
1. Electrical safety (NFPA code) ground
2. Radio Frequency ground
3. Lightning protection ground
Number 3 is by far the most complicated and expensive to be done correctly and can easily far exceed the total cost of replacement of your radio equipment; some techniques advocated by radio hobbyests can actually excaberate the effects of a direct strike.
If you do suffer a direct strike, the insurance adjuster will be looking for an excuse to deny your claim so the most important step you can take is to insure your installation is compliant with your local electrical code.
Good luck
1. Electrical safety (NFPA code) ground
2. Radio Frequency ground
3. Lightning protection ground
Number 3 is by far the most complicated and expensive to be done correctly and can easily far exceed the total cost of replacement of your radio equipment; some techniques advocated by radio hobbyests can actually excaberate the effects of a direct strike.
If you do suffer a direct strike, the insurance adjuster will be looking for an excuse to deny your claim so the most important step you can take is to insure your installation is compliant with your local electrical code.
Good luck
I really do want to thank everyone for the replies
What im trying to do it lower some of the hf noise im getting into my pcr-100 im running it with an end feed long wire.
I'm no expert by any means but i did read grounding the radio via the ground terminal might help my receiving signal coming into the radio
What im trying to do it lower some of the hf noise im getting into my pcr-100 im running it with an end feed long wire.
I'm no expert by any means but i did read grounding the radio via the ground terminal might help my receiving signal coming into the radio
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
While RF grounding will help, look at your antenna too. Are you running a simple inverted L or random wire with either the feedline or the antenna itself close to the house? You will pick up every possible noise generator imaginable from within the house. Better to use a coax lead in with a 9:1 transformer (this depends to a degree on the kind of antenna you are using) and move the antenna as far away from the house as possible. Long coax lengths have very low loss at freqs below 30 mhz, so this is not a real consideration.
Look at your setup. PCs can and often do radiate all sorts of noise. Be a detective - if you have multiple PCs in your setup, turn them off, then turn on each component one by one and see if the noise level increases. Sometimes it's the mouse, other times it might be the display - any number of combination of things. If you have a lot of computer cables lying about, try coiling them up and tie with wire ties to hold them in place - sometimes that also helps.
Something in your shack may also be radiating. The same detective method applies. Noise on HF is insidious - it can be generated from so many sources, it takes work to find the actual cause. And there may well be more than one. 73 Mike
Look at your setup. PCs can and often do radiate all sorts of noise. Be a detective - if you have multiple PCs in your setup, turn them off, then turn on each component one by one and see if the noise level increases. Sometimes it's the mouse, other times it might be the display - any number of combination of things. If you have a lot of computer cables lying about, try coiling them up and tie with wire ties to hold them in place - sometimes that also helps.
Something in your shack may also be radiating. The same detective method applies. Noise on HF is insidious - it can be generated from so many sources, it takes work to find the actual cause. And there may well be more than one. 73 Mike
jim202
Member
Please do a search on the site here for grounding. There have been many threads on the subject and
you will learn much more reading the older threads than trying to get a new one going to hash this all
over again.
The bottom line here is there are a number of people on here that try to guide people based on here
say. You really need to do some research on the subject and find out the true answers.
I have been in the cellular construction field for about 20 years now and have found out that the different
cellular companies all do their site grounding about the same. There are a few minor differences,
but all of them generally do it the same way. The average individual will not spend the money to
put in a grounding system for a communications facility just for a one or two radio hobby.
You should check with your house insurance company and see just what their requirements are
before you go very much further. Some insurance companies have their act together and can
supply some simple guide line to follow. Other insurance companies won't even know what your
asking.
You might also check with the local wiring inspector and see if they have any comments on your
project. Sometimes they are very helpful and other inspectors are a real pain in the butt to even
get any answers out of.
Your on your own until you can define just what the 4 corners of the box are. After you have a clear
picture of what is required, the rest almost falls into place. By that time you will have done the
research on grounding and will have found out the do's and don'ts of what you need to do.
If I sound like I am being evasive, not really, I can't help you until I know what your required to do
at a minimum. How much beyond that you go will depend on how much you want to spend or
how little you want to spend and gamble on never getting any damage.
I will point out a comment you will run across and say that you can survive a direct hit on a radio
tower and have everything stay operational. I have seen it happen and had equipment at the site.
The tower was in a heavy rain storm when the lightning struck the tower. It actually was steaming
in the rain until it cooled down. Now tell me that wasn't a heavy hit. The tower was a guyed 600
foot tower with all sorts of public safety and cellular communications equipment on it. It also had
a number of ham radio repeaters on it. The only damage any of the equipment was to one ham
repeater that the owner refused to follow the site policy on grounding and surge protection. The site
owner made the ham radio owner sign a statement to the effect that the radio was not correctly
protected and the site owner warned him of the potential damage that could result.
Enough said. Go do your home work. If you still have questions, come back.
Jim
you will learn much more reading the older threads than trying to get a new one going to hash this all
over again.
The bottom line here is there are a number of people on here that try to guide people based on here
say. You really need to do some research on the subject and find out the true answers.
I have been in the cellular construction field for about 20 years now and have found out that the different
cellular companies all do their site grounding about the same. There are a few minor differences,
but all of them generally do it the same way. The average individual will not spend the money to
put in a grounding system for a communications facility just for a one or two radio hobby.
You should check with your house insurance company and see just what their requirements are
before you go very much further. Some insurance companies have their act together and can
supply some simple guide line to follow. Other insurance companies won't even know what your
asking.
You might also check with the local wiring inspector and see if they have any comments on your
project. Sometimes they are very helpful and other inspectors are a real pain in the butt to even
get any answers out of.
Your on your own until you can define just what the 4 corners of the box are. After you have a clear
picture of what is required, the rest almost falls into place. By that time you will have done the
research on grounding and will have found out the do's and don'ts of what you need to do.
If I sound like I am being evasive, not really, I can't help you until I know what your required to do
at a minimum. How much beyond that you go will depend on how much you want to spend or
how little you want to spend and gamble on never getting any damage.
I will point out a comment you will run across and say that you can survive a direct hit on a radio
tower and have everything stay operational. I have seen it happen and had equipment at the site.
The tower was in a heavy rain storm when the lightning struck the tower. It actually was steaming
in the rain until it cooled down. Now tell me that wasn't a heavy hit. The tower was a guyed 600
foot tower with all sorts of public safety and cellular communications equipment on it. It also had
a number of ham radio repeaters on it. The only damage any of the equipment was to one ham
repeater that the owner refused to follow the site policy on grounding and surge protection. The site
owner made the ham radio owner sign a statement to the effect that the radio was not correctly
protected and the site owner warned him of the potential damage that could result.
Enough said. Go do your home work. If you still have questions, come back.
Jim
Maybe this will help me and everyone else trying to help me. If you had an Icom pcr-100 how would you ground the radio via the grounding screw on the back of the radio. Im not trying to rehash and old thread or stir the pot just wanted to get some advice to get the best shortwave signal into the radio and did not know if grounding the radio would help. I really do appreciate all the help here.
just wanted to get some advice to get the best shortwave signal into the radio and did not know if grounding the radio would help. I really do appreciate all the help here.ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
Grounding the radio will help, but it's not the only thing you can do to reduce your noise issues. Please see message 9, where I discuss this issue.
I will leave the proper connecting method to a good RF ground to others....
73 Mike
I will leave the proper connecting method to a good RF ground to others....
73 Mike
lanbergld
Member
I do not earth ground any of my radios. But I exclusively use loop antennas, which are chassis grounded. This thing about grounding a radio into dirt is a throwback to the days of Herbert Hoover & Packards, when radios had a lot of stray voltage running around inside. With what we use I think its overkill giving little or no result.
Larry Lanberg
Richmond VA
Larry Lanberg
Richmond VA
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
Sorry, but that's a rather misinformed attitude. While the antenna you describe does not need a ground to work properly, we're not just concerned with RF grounding - you should also consider the possibility of lightning protection (at least as much as you can, in any case. A direct lightning strike will likely nail you one way or another, regardless of the protection), and compliance with your local electrical codes. Failure to bond properly might even affect your homeowner's insurance, from what I've read, dependent on the codes required in your area.
These threads discuss this topic...I'd urge you to read them. I will be the first to agree that there's a ton of snake oil half-truths out there; it might pay to be more informed...
http://forums.radioreference.com/an...e-antenna-grounding-lightning-protection.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/antennas-coax-forum/182975-do-i-need-ground-antenna.html
73 Mike
These threads discuss this topic...I'd urge you to read them. I will be the first to agree that there's a ton of snake oil half-truths out there; it might pay to be more informed...
http://forums.radioreference.com/an...e-antenna-grounding-lightning-protection.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/antennas-coax-forum/182975-do-i-need-ground-antenna.html
73 Mike
Back in the Day, grounding use to be taken seriously, meters were used such as the newer biddle megger:
Biddle 250260 Megger Direct Reading Earth Tester - eBay (item 330441593138 end time Jun-16-10 15:02:04 PDT)
And ground rods were driven until a good ground reference was made.
Today, its all about cheap, and people dont understand why their 4' ground rod did not protect them.
Biddle 250260 Megger Direct Reading Earth Tester - eBay (item 330441593138 end time Jun-16-10 15:02:04 PDT)
And ground rods were driven until a good ground reference was made.
Today, its all about cheap, and people dont understand why their 4' ground rod did not protect them.
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