• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.
  • Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Handheld and small table top

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
10
Location
Baker, TX
#1
Hi. I am looking for general recommendations some handheld radios and a compatible small table top (or car installable) radio that will:

1) handle a large bandwidth or have the ability to be modified (remove diode, etc..) to handle a large bandwidth.

2) communicate via aes-256 bit encryption.

I am not looking to use these now. I am looking to pack them in my bug out bag should future years ever call for a survival situation.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thank you.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
8,884
Location
PA
#2
The closest thing out there right now would be the TYT MD380 or MD-390.

They don't have AES-256 (it's some proprietary algorithm AFAIK), but they do take a 512-bit encryption key in Enhanced Privacy mode. I wouldn't trust it against the NSA, but it's not trivially crackable by skript kiddies, either.

The 390 is more expensive than the 380, but it has built-in GPS and an IP67 waterproof case.

They are not dual-band; they are available in either VHF (136-174) or UHF (400-480MHz). They can do analog FM, but only do encryption in DMR digital mode.

I'll mention that digital and encryptoin are not legal on FRS or GMRS frequencies, and encryption is not legal on HAM frequencies. Digital and encryption are legal on business/industrial frequencies, but use of those frequencies requires a license. If you choose to violate the law, the odds of getting caught are fairly slim, unless you interfere with public safety or licensed users, or enage in other stupidity to annoy people. But in the event the world as we know it ends, this may be a moot point. YMMV.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
10
Location
Baker, TX
#3
Thank you. I do understand the legalities. I have no intention of using them illegally. The encryption would only be for preparedness in case there is ever a time where legalities would no longer be an issue.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,389
Location
In the 'patch
#5
The down side of what you want to do is key loading. Most portables and mobiles require encryption keys to be loaded with a key variable loader.

Honestly, 40bit EP that motorola sells with the TRBO series will keep majority of people from decrypting your comms. The 40bit keys are set in software when you program the radio. The XPR-7550 Q (R?) Split cover 400-520MHz. Most others cover 400-470MHz in one version and 450-520MHz in a second. 99.9% of VHF LMR portables and mobiles cover 136-174MHz.

Even encrypted an advasary can still gain significant intel with out actually knowing what you are saying.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
3,239
Location
Texas
#6
What you are asking for doesn't really exist. You are going to be banded to either VHF or UHF. Currently there is not modifying in the sense people modify amateur radio equipment.

AES will require some form of hardware or software key loader depending on the manufacturer.

As stated above your best bet is probably DMR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
8,884
Location
PA
#9
Do you have a good recommendation for a home unit that can communicate long range?
I would suggest the TYT MD-9600, (Tytera TYT MD-9600 DMR Digital Mobile Radio) which is currently on pre-order and supposed to be shipping in the next few weeks. Each manufacturer tends to use proprietary encryption configurations, and cross-brand encryption compatibility is pretty much non-existent.

With TYT, encryption keys are part of the radio programming, so you'll need a computer with the programming software, channel data, and the cable to connect the computer to the radio. Reprogramming a radio only takes about a minute, regardless of whether you're just updating keys or loading a completely new set of frequencies.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,953
#11
Hi. I am looking for general recommendations some handheld radios and a compatible small table top (or car installable) radio that will:

1) handle a large bandwidth or have the ability to be modified (remove diode, etc..) to handle a large bandwidth.

2) communicate via aes-256 bit encryption.

I am not looking to use these now. I am looking to pack them in my bug out bag should future years ever call for a survival situation.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thank you.
If you can get by with 56 bit DES (the feds have for years, and no back door as AES is rumored), Motorola Systems Sabers and T3011 key loader can be obtained for a reasonable price. The 12 kbps CVSD actually sounds better than the current IMBE and AMBE vocoders in my opinion.
 

jbantennaman

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
72
#13
Hi. I am looking for general recommendations some handheld radios and a compatible small table top (or car installable) radio that will:

1) handle a large bandwidth or have the ability to be modified (remove diode, etc..) to handle a large bandwidth.

2) communicate via aes-256 bit encryption.

I am not looking to use these now. I am looking to pack them in my bug out bag should future years ever call for a survival situation.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thank you.
A wise man once said, if you wait until an emergency to use your radios, you will usually find that when there is an emergency that the radio doesn't work, or you don't know how to use it!

I heard no mention of any sort of license, if you want to operate on more then FRS - which limits you to the .5 watt Motorola Bubble Pack radios, you need to obtain some type of license.

Amateur radio involves getting all of your users licensed, something I have not been able to do, even on a small scale.

GMRS involves buying licenses for each family that wants to use it.

Free Banding - a term borrowed from The Citizens Band, is not a viable option.

As far as that goes, you will attract a lot less attention being a licensed user in any radio service then being a Bootlegger and operating where you do not belong.
If your reason for wanting encryption is for secure communications, the easiest way to be discovered would be to operate with a mode that others cannot listen to.
When you interfere with a licensed service, it tends to bring people out of the woodwork that will go out of their way to find you and take your radios off of you.

Even just not understanding the band plan, will sometimes get you into trouble.
I see this mentality all the time, where people believes that in a disaster that no one will care what you do with radio. When in fact, the first place most people will turn is radio.
Two way radio for most practical purposes is dead.
Cell Phones out numbers two way radios 1000 to 1.

What most people discovers is that in an emergency, those 1/2 watt vs 1 watt bubble pack radios, only has a range of about 100 yards to 4 miles.
Sometimes you can be 1/4 of a mile around the side of a hill and have no reception.
Adding digital to the mix, makes it even worse for reception.
Analog will get through where digital might not.

These are things that must be practiced to learn how terrain affects your signal.
It isn't like a cell phone where all you have to do is buy something and use it.
Cell phones works because someone went to the bother to put up the cell tower and maintain that tower and equipment and ensure that other users on a similar frequency or harmonic does not degrade it's signals. I have a local 2 meter repeater here that is too close in frequency to another repeater 65 miles away and 5 kc's away - with no PL.
If I key the 146.665 repeater here, it also keys the 146.670 repeater 65 miles away, and the two heterodyne's in my receiver, rendering both repeaters unusable.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
1,267
Location
Brownsville Texas,On The Border By The Sea.
#14
The closest thing out there right now would be the TYT MD380 or MD-390.

They don't have AES-256 (it's some proprietary algorithm AFAIK), but they do take a 512-bit encryption key in Enhanced Privacy mode. I wouldn't trust it against the NSA, but it's not trivially crackable by skript kiddies, either.

The 390 is more expensive than the 380, but it has built-in GPS and an IP67 waterproof case.

They are not dual-band; they are available in either VHF (136-174) or UHF (400-480MHz). They can do analog FM, but only do encryption in DMR digital mode.

I'll mention that digital and encryptoin are not legal on FRS or GMRS frequencies, and encryption is not legal on HAM frequencies. Digital and encryption are legal on business/industrial frequencies, but use of those frequencies requires a license. If you choose to violate the law, the odds of getting caught are fairly slim, unless you interfere with public safety or licensed users, or enage in other stupidity to annoy people. But in the event the world as we know it ends, this may be a moot point. YMMV.
What Frequencies range will you be using this so called encryption because its very ILLEGAL here in the good O USA.
 

jwt873

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
841
Location
Woodlands, MB
#15
I think the OP means to use his radios when civilization has broken down and no real laws apply. If this is the case, a survivalist site would probably be the best place to get suggestions for radio equipment.

There was no mention of budget... A pair of Motorola XPR-5500 radios would fill the bill nicely.

Without a repeater, VHF/UHF has a very limited range. It's pretty well line of sight. If you're in a vehicle on flat terrain, expect only a few miles range. On a big hill (where you can see farther) you will get better range.

For long range, you need to use an HF radio. On 80 meters My IC-7000 has no problem reaching stations over 100 miles away during the day. It can go much farther at night. On the higher bands, I can talk anywhere in the world when conditions are right. My first contact after installing my IC-7000 in the car was in Italy.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
8,884
Location
PA
#17
A wise man once said, if you wait until an emergency to use your radios, you will usually find that when there is an emergency that the radio doesn't work, or you don't know how to use it!
This applies to ANY "disaster preparedness gear. Use it and test it BEFORE your life depends on it, or it will not work when you need it most.

Two way radio for most practical purposes is dead.
Cell Phones out numbers two way radios 1000 to 1.
I'm pretty sure the OP is looking for options in situations where cell phone service is not available. And the existence of this site is a pretty good indication 2-way radio is not "dead".

Adding digital to the mix, makes it even worse for reception.
Analog will get through where digital might not.
Not according to my testing. Encrypted digital starts breaking up at pretty much the same distance analog FM starts having trouble breaking squelch. The usable range difference is less than 5%.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,953
#18
What Frequencies range will you be using this so called encryption because its very ILLEGAL here in the good O USA.
He can get a license in the Part 90 I/B and legally use encryption provided the appropriate emission designator is stated on the license application. I suggest one or more of the low power itinerant channels.

But if he is waiting for Zombie Apocalypse and TEOTWAWKI, anything goes......Those surplus Systems Saber Securenet radios could work pretty good, perfectly legal on Ham GMRS for regular use -- until SHTF and you load the encryption key with the KVL device.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,389
Location
In the 'patch
#20
.

Adding digital to the mix, makes it even worse for reception.

Analog will get through where digital might not.

Completely opposite of everything I have experienced with NXDN, DMR and D-Star.

My experience with DMR is full audio recovery at signal strengths which would render analogue impossible to understand.

NXDN 6.25KHz channels, are much the same.

Same with D-a Star, but once it loses sync, it does not come back. Plus no late entry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top