Hands Free Law???

[HamBanjo]

Hands Free Law???

new guy here...
Been listening to the scanner again and I realized I hear alot of mobiles out there and then I started thinking, "are they on headsets or hand mic's".... and does the hands free law apply to CB Mics/HAM Mics here in Calif
....was wanting to put the CB back in the truck but I don't need the ticket.......

thanks
fred





" You Can Tune A Fish, But You Cant Tune A
Banjo..."

 

[K6CDO]

Two-way radios are not covered by the state's hands-free law.
However, the 'driving while distracted' sections still apply, so be careful when using the two-way.

 

[HamBanjo]

10-4 and thank you very much....

 

[Code20Photog]

Two-way radios are not covered by the state's hands-free law.
However, the 'driving while distracted' sections still apply, so be careful when using the two-way.

Buddy of mine who's a traffic officer with a local PD, says it's officer discretion and can be written as "electrical device in hand" which is what I got popped for with a Nextel PTT.

 

[k3cfc]

There are people that can eat drink chat and drive with no problem, then you have the ones that can't walk down the sidewalk and chew gum at the same time. here's your sign.

K3CFC

 

[searingxheretic]

I'd certainly want to be driving next to a cb operator rather than a soccer mom in a mini van trying to get french fries out of a mcdonalds bag...

Sent from my cm_tenderloin

 

[k3cfc]

I'd certainly want to be driving next to a cb operator rather than a soccer mom in a mini van trying to get french fries out of a mcdonalds bag...

Sent from my cm_tenderloin

Exactly what i was saying. lmao.



K3CFC

 

[SCPD]

The law specifically excludes ham and other land mobile radio services. An electrical device in the hand could be interpreted as a microphone, but the exclusion under the law trumps it, in my opinion.

Before I retired I was able to talk on a handheld, have the mobile mike on my lap and connected to a scanning mobile with have a scanner going at the same time and sometimes write with my other hand while steering the vehicle with my knees during an emergency response (on long straight portions of a road anyway). I would be on a tactical frequency on the handheld, Forest Net on the mobile, and listening to CHP or Caltrans on the scanner, while barking out orders on either one of the transceivers. I know I can't do that now. No wonder there is a mandatory retirement age of 57 for firefighters and law enforcement in the federal government!

Now days I find that a discussion on ham radio tends to distract me while driving and I listen far more than I speak. Unlike the USFS rigs I drove, the scanner in my cars has to be turned off when I transmit on a ham rig. The USFS radio tech on our Forest managed to install the radios in a way where both could be used simultaneously even though they were in close proximity, something I have not managed to accomplish yet. I don't know how he did it. I don't really need to find out as I don't want my scanner on during ham conversations due to the distraction. I have a hard enough time on a dual band radio when the other side receives another conversation while I'm talking. Just another factor in aging and you have to accept your limitations gracefully.

 

[Highpockets]

Just another factor in aging and you have to accept your limitations gracefully.

I'm having a hard time doing that.

 

[radioalbany]

Exsmokey - Think you're mistaken about a ham exemption in the California hands-free law. DMV says there USED to be an exemption for some two-way stuff, but no more:

Text Messaging Law Effective January 1 2009 Cellular Phone Laws Effective July 1 2008

Regards,

Andrew Ellis NO6E

 

[k3cfc]

This is about cell phones no mention about ham or cb radios.

 

[jrholm]

This is the law, straight from the vehicle code. There is no prohibition against HAM's or CB's.

23123. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using a
wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and
configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in
that manner while driving.
(b) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense.
(c) This section does not apply to a person using a wireless
telephone for emergency purposes, including, but not limited to, an
emergency call to a law enforcement agency, health care provider,
fire department, or other emergency services agency or entity.
(d) This section does not apply to an emergency services
professional using a wireless telephone while operating an authorized
emergency vehicle, as defined in Section 165, in the course and
scope of his or her duties.
(e) This section does not apply to a person driving a schoolbus or
transit vehicle that is subject to Section 23125.
(f) This section does not apply to a person while driving a motor
vehicle on private property.
(g) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2011.



23123.5. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using
an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read
a text-based communication, unless the electronic wireless
communications device is specifically designed and configured to
allow voice-operated and hands-free operation to dictate, send, or
listen to a text-based communication, and it is used in that manner
while driving.
(b) As used in this section "write, send, or read a text-based
communication" means using an electronic wireless communications
device to manually communicate with any person using a text-based
communication, including, but not limited to, communications referred
to as a text message, instant message, or electronic mail.
(c) For purposes of this section, a person shall not be deemed to
be writing, reading, or sending a text-based communication if the
person reads, selects, or enters a telephone number or name in an
electronic wireless communications device for the purpose of making
or receiving a telephone call or if a person otherwise activates or
deactivates a feature or function on an electronic wireless
communications device.
(d) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense.
(e) This section does not apply to an emergency services
professional using an electronic wireless communications device while
operating an authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in Section
165, in the course and scope of his or her duties.

 

[RadioDaze]

A very careful reading of the law will reveal that it only prohibits those under the age of 18 from using a two-way radio ("mobile service device") while driving.

 

[SCPD]

A very careful reading of the law will reveal that it only prohibits those under the age of 18 from using a two-way radio ("mobile service device") while driving.

The key here is not that the law says "mobile service device," it is the definition of that phrase that is important. Almost every law and regulation has a definition portion unless the common dictionary version is sufficient. Under "(g)" of CVC 23124 the phrase is defined as follows: "mobile service device" includes, but is not limited to, a broadband personal communication device, specialized mobile radio device, handheld device or laptop computer with mobile data access, pager, and two-way messaging device." The emphasis added is mine.

The FCC created a particular type of service called the "specialized mobile radio service" in 1979. This is from the FCC's website:

FCC: Wireless Services: Specialized Mobile Radio Service: Specialized Mobile Radio Service

The language of the the California Vehicle Code is quite specific in citing this radio service, otherwise different wording would have been chosen. Nextel provided cell phone service with a "push to talk" feature, using SMR frequencies sandwiched between public service frequencies that caused interference resulting in the well known "rebanding" process. The SMR service was not created to provide cell phone service. Because of this Nextel ended up paying most of the bills. The legislature made sure it covered this "Nextel technicality." Had the legislature wanted to include the use of CB, ham, GMRS, FRS, public safety and commercial two way radio those words would have been chosen. In fact "wireless services" would be inclusive enough, in FCC terms, that no other words would be necessary.

 

[RadioDaze]

Thank you for digging down deeper into that for us. So I guess that means not even minors are precluded from using a two-way radio. Clearly, none of us are prevented from operating radios, unless it distracts from our driving.

 

[k3cfc]

I guess the only to finalize this is to drive around calfornia and chat on your CB two way communicator and see if you get popped.


K3CFC

 

[Radio_Lady]

I guess the only to finalize this is to drive around calfornia and chat on your CB two way communicator and see if you get popped.

And that would just be one policeman's interpretation, or misinterpretation, of the CVC section. Not very conclusive or final.

 

[SuperFudd]

Agreed

Agreed about one cops interpretation.

On the way home from work today I was talking on 2 meters with Pete N6YIF while on a Union City street when I was pulled over by the California Highway Patrol. They informed me that I was violating the law by talking on a ham radio while driving.
They said the operation of a CB or ham radio while driving, except if using a "hands free device" is legal only if you are a trucker. Yeah, I know, and for the CHP but they didn't mention that. Yes, they gave me a warning since I fought the urge to ask them for a ticket so I could "tell it to the judge".

While at work today my adult daughter called to local CHP office and asked their opinion. They were shocked and amazed. They said I should not have been stopped and asked if we had the officer's badge number. We don't. They then suggested I stop by the office so they could see my radio gear (2 meter) and how I was using it.
For the record I was using a Radio Shack HTX-202 HT as a mobile using an external 4 foot mag mount on the trunk, external power and a speaker microphone. They don't understand why I was stopped. I will go there after work tomorrow.

Don KC6IPO

 

[russianspd]

ha that's silly. If it was legal for only truckers I have a feeling there would be less CB/HAM users out there as a whole. Lots of people use it on their long commutes, Like their own talk radio.

 

[mkewman]

Legal: Amateur Radio, CB, GMRS, FRS, and other Two Way radio services when used on a two way radio device.

Also Legal: Peace officers using Cell phones, Nextel and other PTT Devices on a cellular telephone form factor.

Illegal: Cell phones, Including NEXTEL, and other PTT services when used with a cellular telephone form factor.

Also Illegal: Driving while distracted by a legal device, such as an amateur radio, cb or business band two way radio.