Harvard University LTR

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OceanNora

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Does anyone currently monitor/have information on the Harvard University LTR system? Every so often when in search mode I do hear one of their frequencies (451.7250) with what sounds like shuttle ops but when I plug the system in as a LTR as it's listed on Radioreference I've heard absolutely nothing for days and at attempts at using LCN finder have not been successful . Also of note is the fact that I've been hearing DMR (with my scanner indicating that it's Cap+) one one frequency on the same license, even though I still hear transmissions from one of the frequencies on the analog trunk.
 

ecps92

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It has always been a tough one to decode and report
Harvard University LTR - Scan New England Wiki

Does anyone currently monitor/have information on the Harvard University LTR system? Every so often when in search mode I do hear one of their frequencies (451.7250) with what sounds like shuttle ops but when I plug the system in as a LTR as it's listed on Radioreference I've heard absolutely nothing for days and at attempts at using LCN finder have not been successful . Also of note is the fact that I've been hearing DMR (with my scanner indicating that it's Cap+) one one frequency on the same license, even though I still hear transmissions from one of the frequencies on the analog trunk.
 

EricCottrell

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Does anyone currently monitor/have information on the Harvard University LTR system? Every so often when in search mode I do hear one of their frequencies (451.7250) with what sounds like shuttle ops but when I plug the system in as a LTR as it's listed on Radioreference I've heard absolutely nothing for days and at attempts at using LCN finder have not been successful . Also of note is the fact that I've been hearing DMR (with my scanner indicating that it's Cap+) one one frequency on the same license, even though I still hear transmissions from one of the frequencies on the analog trunk.
Hello,

The reason is they use Passport instead of Regular LTR. There is no scanner that decodes Passport. There is a DOS based program that can decode it.

73 Eric
 

OceanNora

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That would certainly explain it, I wonder why it hasn't been marked as such in Radioreference and in the Scan-NE wiki.
 

ecps92

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Likely due to No One making the submission :roll:

Both groups are based on USER contributions and there are plenty of unidentified systems out there.
That would certainly explain it, I wonder why it hasn't been marked as such in Radioreference and in the Scan-NE wiki.
 

masstech

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Apologies for responding to a 2 month old thread, but I figure I could throw some information here...

We all know the public-facing information:
- pagers: http://www.energyandfacilities.harv....harvard.edu/files/Alpha Pager Fact Sheet.pdf
- radios: http://www.energyandfacilities.harv...arvard.edu/files/Two-way Radio Fact Sheet.pdf

(the radio pdf can also be found here: https://www.campusservices.harvard.edu/system/files/documents/970/Two-way Radio Fact Sheet.pdf, which is weird but in any case...)

There's a lot of interesting internal information about pagers, but for the time being, I asked a friend at Harvard to log into https://apps.campusservices.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/paging/paging.pl to show me radio-relevant information...

Truly a nickel-and-dime operation!

https://imgur.com/a/CaZYv

But this gives us a curious clue that there are 7 repeaters... And that they've tossed out the Kenwoods for just the Motorola 1250s...
 
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mmckenna

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Apologies for responding to a 2 month old thread, but I figure I could throw some information here...

Interesting, thanks for posting.

The pager service is curious. We shut down our paging services back around 2000, of course they were not alpha numeric pagers. Prices seem kind of high for what it is. I guess a legacy service they need to keep providing.

The radio service is interesting too. Looks like it's simply a long term rental. Rates seemed kind of high until you realize it includes (or seems to) the radio. I run a few radio systems, including a trunked system for a university. We have the end user buy the radios, then I program them and put them on the system. $212/year per radio.




But this gives us a curious clue that there are 7 repeaters... And that they've tossed out the Kenwoods for just the Motorola 1250s...

Kenwood ceased supporting Passport recently, with the TK-3140 no longer supported, either, sort of makes sense. I can't imagine Motorola sticking with Passport much longer either, especially with the Pro-series radios out of the equation.
 

masstech

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I know that Harvard is weird in that a lot of it's sub-organizations are disjunct and split/sharded in weird and complex ways, so it's better to operate in this sort of manner, but it goes to show just how much money gets shoveled around in that school...

My reading of that webpage is after completion of contract without desire for renewal, you have to return radios.

I wonder how they calculate system loading, and if they grow the system more if they build out more repeaters and link them in, or if it's just been 7 and that's it.

I'll try to get the pager service webpages soon - but not right now - (I glimpsed at them over my friend's shoulder - there's a lot of interesting info to glean about how Harvard operates on those things, and it looks like they park on one of the large pager service providers, which makes sense).
 

mmckenna

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Yeah, we are a "recharge" based university, so there's a lot of money getting pushed back and forth between departments.

I require our users to purchase their own radios. I program them, put them on our system, and charge the $212/year per radio. That covers some of my time, system depreciation, upkeep, tier 1 support, etc.

When I switched from the old analog trunking system to digital, I had enough funds left over to subsidize individual radio purchases by a fair amount. That really helped boost the number of radios in the hands of those that needed them, boosted our recurring charges, and kept interest up. Ended up with more radios on the new system than the old one.

Paging is interesting. With low cost cell phones, paging is a real throw back. We used to provide a VHF based voice paging system, but it was getting difficult to support.

Nice thing about pagers is that they are easy to ignore...
 

masstech

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The university where I'm at is also similarly set up in terms of internal finances, but radio systems here aren't that complex.

For the school's facilities system (MOTOTRBO, conventional all around), the end user/group must pay for the radio, and they get given information on how it should be programmed, and now that group can get in touch with facilities staff. (this isn't a trunked system, and if users want their own private talkgroup, they'll have to skip that notion and go get their own hardware and licensing).

For the school's public safety groups (police and ems), they have an agreement with the local city's maintainers of the city's trunked radio system - they buy the radios, they get tossed an ASK and a seed codeplug, and they do their own programming.

I suspect with pagers Harvard is supporting primarily their medical school, which makes sense. Might as well throw on other interested groups and users while they're at it, then.
 

mmckenna

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I suspect with pagers Harvard is supporting primarily their medical school, which makes sense. Might as well throw on other interested groups and users while they're at it, then.

That makes a lot of sense.


We made the mistake of letting a local shop have access to our system key and info on the old analog system. They were supposed to -only- program radios that we authorized. That agreement lasted about a week, then all kinds of radios started showing up on the system, often with identical ID's, so we lost the ability to control access.

Now all radios are required to pass through my hands for programming. That gives us 100% control over access, billing, etc. It also prevents an unscrupulous shop/tech from putting outsiders on the system without our knowledge.

I do the PD/Fire systems, too, but that's easier since it's analog VHF and only for public safety users.

Should be interesting to see how long Harvard sticks with Passport, if that is what they are running. Motorola Pro series HT's are EOL'd, so they'll have to find something.
 

masstech

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> ... then all kinds of radios started showing up on the system, often with identical ID's ...

A shame. If you can't trust the radio shop, might as well be your own shop!

And don't forget radios that weren't configured properly for scanning without affiliating, and now your controller keeps getting a bunch of registration requests from radios with an ID of 1... :^)

Fortunately for PD and EMS, the city handles the system, so no need to worry. But for facilities... there's no RAC set up, it's conventional MOTOTRBO repeaters, so any random whacker with an SDR can ascertain the appropriate CC for each repeater after looking at the ULS for our licenses, if not by trial and error, and transmit as they desire. This hasn't been the case though, and I think a lot of campus people appreciate that they're able to easily receive Facilities traffic, so who knows.

I was digging through Harvard related licenses the other day and noticed a lot of HUPD and Operations Center-related licenses with frequencies with MOTOTRBO emissions. Perhaps they might be gearing for a move (although I can't imagine why HUPD would want to move from their existing P25 conventional setup)...

I will need to do a more thorough reading of those licenses and look at application/grant dates to see if this is smelling like a move.
 

masstech

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I also propose that at some point a separate new thread should be made for Harvard University discussion, but for the time being:

It's curious to note that HUPD has 3 new repeater pairs since 2015 centered around two locations (their main campus in Cambridge and their school of public health in boston) per WQVX899 ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQVX899 - HARVARD UNIVERSITY. Their emissions designators are for NFM and P25 (Phase 1, conventional):

- 451.07500+5
- 451.20000+5
- 451.62500+5

I've tossed these into my APX to scan (I really ought to purchase a device actually meant for scanning...) but haven't heard anything yet. I'm a little tired so am having trouble deciphering the admin transaction log, which I think might point towards "this hasn't been built out yet".

To link the two sites together, they have a 18 GHz (17.8, IIRC) microwave link (I don't feel like digging around for that license right now, I closed it after dismissing it), also licensed for the same licensee with the same contact (CYBER COMMUNICATION).
 
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garys

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Harvard Medical School is in Boston, but I'd guess that the School of Public Health is located on that campus. I would think that one repeater would cover both campuses, but maybe not. HMS has a fairly small footprint on Longwood Ave.

As you note, it wouldn't make sense for HUPD to move off of P25 as they would lose access to a couple of the BAPERN channels.

I also propose that at some point a separate new thread should be made for Harvard University discussion, but for the time being:

It's curious to note that HUPD has 3 new repeater pairs since 2015 centered around two locations (their main campus in Cambridge and their school of public health in boston) per WQVX899 ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQVX899 - HARVARD UNIVERSITY. Their emissions designators are for NFM and P25 (Phase 1, conventional):

- 451.07500+5
- 451.20000+5
- 451.62500+5

I've tossed these into my APX to scan (I really ought to purchase a device actually meant for scanning...) but haven't heard anything yet. I'm a little tired so am having trouble deciphering the admin transaction log, which I think might point towards "this hasn't been built out yet".

To link the two sites together, they have a 18 GHz (17.8, IIRC) microwave link (I don't feel like digging around for that license right now, I closed it after dismissing it), also licensed for the same licensee with the same contact (CYBER COMMUNICATION).
 

OceanNora

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I've definitely heard what I believe to be Harvard Housing on DMR now, along with the Harvard Museum and business school ops. Housing appears to be a trunked system whereas the museum and business school appear to be conventional
 

masstech

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Harvard Medical School is in Boston, but I'd guess that the School of Public Health is located on that campus. I would think that one repeater would cover both campuses, but maybe not. HMS has a fairly small footprint on Longwood Ave.

As you note, it wouldn't make sense for HUPD to move off of P25 as they would lose access to a couple of the BAPERN channels.

On the contrary! Here are two licenses that are related to HUPD that I have open:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1658508: 1 repeater pair, 463.8500+5. NFM and MOTOTRBO.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1645272: 1 repeater pair, 484.0875+3. FM, NFM, MOTOTRBO.

BAPERN is mostly NFM, and would only require radios that can do (upper) UHF.

And just to make sure, per http://gbpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Members.pdf, HUPD is a BAPERN member. ("Associate", at least, whatever that means)

As a test example, it looks like per SNE, "Quinsigamond Community College" uses MOTOTRBO for their campus police, and are also an associate member of BAPERN.
 
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ecps92

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BAPERN Associates, just mean they can use the purchasing contracts, really has nothing to do with the Radio System and there are P25 uses within the Radio Network, however the Area-Wide 3/4 are Analog

On the contrary! Here are two licenses that are related to HUPD that I have open:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1658508: 1 repeater pair, 463.8500+5. NFM and MOTOTRBO.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1645272: 1 repeater pair, 484.0875+3. FM, NFM, MOTOTRBO.

BAPERN is mostly NFM, and would only require radios that can do (upper) UHF.

And just to make sure, per http://gbpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Members.pdf, HUPD is a BAPERN member. ("Associate", at least, whatever that means)

As a test example, it looks like per SNE, "Quinsigamond Community College" uses MOTOTRBO for their campus police, and are also an associate member of BAPERN.
 

garys

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And of course it's not like Harvard is short of money! :D

BAPERN Associates, just mean they can use the purchasing contracts, really has nothing to do with the Radio System and there are P25 uses within the Radio Network, however the Area-Wide 3/4 are Analog
 
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