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Helicopter crash -- GR Spectrum Butterworth hospital roof

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#1
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8395273
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=92943
http://www.scanmichigan.com/

I believe it was AeroMed that crashed there. It was a training session; no medical on board. They hit the elevator shaft on takeoff.

There was heavy smoke and fire live on TV. WZZM 13 had a tower cam on the roof which was knocked sideways... their video of the smoke is incredible.

The fire is out now and you can see the exterior of the shaft is blackened, and you can see at least 4 gouges where the rotors hit.

I've heard from GR Fire that there is at least 1 victim with severe burns. Update: 1 crew member might be in surgery; the other, unknown condition. Media is reporting minor injuries.

There was a fuel leak into the 10th floor, which they evacuated.
 
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rdale

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When your job requires landing on an occupied hospital - I'd rather you train for it with an instructor vs training in an open field then doing it yourself...
 

iMONITOR

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rdale said:
When your job requires landing on an occupied hospital - I'd rather you train for it with an instructor vs training in an open field then doing it yourself...
Certainly you would train with an instructor. But why wouldn't they be able to simulate this on an abandon building, or setup in a parking lot, vs the roof of a hospital full of people?
 

rdale

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I'm sure they do a simulated setup elsewhere (not on an abandoned building though, not too many have heliports on their roof :) ) I have NO doubt that this was not the trainees first flight.

But at some point you have to do the real thing. And there's not even a cause for the crash yet - if it was mechanical then it would have happened training or not.
 

ocguard

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GreatLakes said:
Certainly you would train with an instructor. But why wouldn't they be able to simulate this on an abandon building, or setup in a parking lot, vs the roof of a hospital full of people?
Yeah, practice landing on an abandoned building with no advances fire safety features in place, or less-than-adequate structural design to support the weight of the aircraft.

Be sure of this -- this hospital appears to me modern, which means that a crash occurring here is actually safer than if it had been in the middle of the city street.

When a hospital is built with a helipad on the roof, it must be built with:
-extra-thick, heat-retardant double-ply roof and pad surface
-self-canceling air handling equipment and dampers
-fireproof drains from the roof directly the the ground (in case of burning fuel)
-fire doors to the pad
-fire shelters on the flight deck (for persons to take refuge)
-fixed fire suppression systems

Professionals practice like they play.

In 2008, a modern US hospital is probably one of the safest places to have a fire.
 

iMONITOR

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1002 said:
Now come on GL, didn't you learn to drive in traffic?????
Actually no. Back in 1965 when I took Driver's Training it was done on a closed course behind a High School. It had traffic lights, stop signs, curbs, driveways, etc. We practiced on that course, and only took our final road test on the public streets.
 

iMONITOR

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ocguard said:
Yeah, practice landing on an abandoned building with no advances fire safety features in place, or less-than-adequate structural design to support the weight of the aircraft.

Be sure of this -- this hospital appears to me modern, which means that a crash occurring here is actually safer than if it had been in the middle of the city street.

When a hospital is built with a helipad on the roof, it must be built with:
-extra-thick, heat-retardant double-ply roof and pad surface
-self-canceling air handling equipment and dampers
-fireproof drains from the roof directly the the ground (in case of burning fuel)
-fire doors to the pad
-fire shelters on the flight deck (for persons to take refuge)
-fixed fire suppression systems

Professionals practice like they play.

In 2008, a modern US hospital is probably one of the safest places to have a fire.


A concrete parking structure could handle it with no problem!

If the hospital was so safe, why did they have to evacuate it?
 

rdale

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What point are you trying to make? You took your road test on real roads. At some point in learning to fly a medical helicopter, you have to land a real medical helicopter in real circumstances...
 

iMONITOR

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rdale said:
What point are you trying to make? You took your road test on real roads. At some point in learning to fly a medical helicopter, you have to land a real medical helicopter in real circumstances...
If I were to crash my car, the result would be minimal compared to what could happen crashing a helicopter into a populated hospital. It just seems like an unnecessary risk.
 

mdulrich

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#12
I don't know if this is the case at that hospital, but some hospitals have GPS approaches for when visibility is limited. Pilots practice these approaches and are checked off on them in good weather for times when weather isn't so good. These approaches can't be simulated at other locations.

Mike
 

rdale

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So let me get this straight... You want the first EVER hospital helipad landing for a new pilot -- to be on his own, on the roof, with doctors / nurses / patients in the back?

That makes no sense.

Please tell me I'm misinterpreting your comments :)
 

TheZach

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GreatLakes said:
A concrete parking structure could handle it with no problem!

If the hospital was so safe, why did they have to evacuate it?
Because siding with caution is better then being stupid - something a wise person would see.
 

TheZach

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For the record - apparently this guy was doing his 6 month requalifying thing. Apparently they have to do this every 6 months in that industry.

Also both the FAA official onboard and the Piliot report hearing a "pop" before the the pilot lost control acording to the NTSB.

Its sad that people have to jump to conclusions and judge people without the facts.... you should be ashamed.
 

iMONITOR

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TheZach said:
For the record - apparently this guy was doing his 6 month requalifying thing. Apparently they have to do this every 6 months in that industry.

Also both the FAA official onboard and the Piliot report hearing a "pop" before the the pilot lost control acording to the NTSB.

Its sad that people have to jump to conclusions and judge people without the facts.... you should be ashamed.

What conclusions? Who judged anyone? What's to be ashamed of?

No one here blamed, or criticized the pilot, or the trainer.
 
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