help choosing a grms or frs or murs radio for 2 to 5 miles or more

[Akuriko]

So I currently own a midland set of FRS radios, they crap out at 1 mile out on my island, I was curious if anyone has any suggestions on how to increase the distance, I got my license coming for grms I was curious if Murs will go farther with obstructions on my island, the goal is 2 to 5 miles, midland emailed me saying the 5 wt to 50 wt could reach the FRS handheld with obstructions, so I am looking as a goal to make a base station grms, or CB radio and have the other handheld for around the island for when my roommate is out, is it possible to get 2 to 5 miles or is it a pipe dream, my goal is with headphones is my roommate carries the radio around so she doesn't take my cell phone everywhere and uses the radio and I use a base station, is it possible or is it all in the antenna for the range, I been watching youtube videos and more, so I figured i would ask the questions. any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[mmckenna]

2-5 miles from a hand held is going to be difficult if you are going from a hand held radio to another hand held radio. Unless one of them is on much higher ground, the obstructions are going to be the challenge.

I'm not really surprised that Midland would say that, being they want to sell radios. Since UHF is mostly line of sight, throwing RF power at the problem usually doesn't help that much. You might get some more foliage penetration and you might get some reflections and get around some obstacles but I wouldn't spend money on a higher power radio until you test that theory.

There are two issues with the FRS radios and even the low end GMRS radios:
1. The receivers are usually on the cheap side and are not always as sensitive as they should be. Think of it as your hearing, if you have earplugs in, or your hearing is shot, it's going to impact how well you can hear someone whispering across the room. Sensitive receivers (ears) make a big difference. Cheap, low end radios often have poor receivers, or receivers that are hampered by strong nearby signals.
2. The short/stubby/cute little antennas on the radios reduce their effectiveness.

If you were to compare a 2 watt MUR hand held radio to a 2 watt FRS radio, the MURS radio MIGHT have a bit of advantage over the FRS radio. VHF tends to bend around obstacles a bit better and works a bit better in dense foliage. Again, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on MURS radios and expect their to be a big difference.

Obstacles are your issue. Getting around those usually takes a repeater or a station on top of the hill to hear things. Trying to solve this with low power consumer radios may be difficult. Higher power will not necessarily resolve the issue.

 

[Akuriko]

my goal was a grms or FRS handheld to be used around an area 2-5 miles while I was told by midland to use a 5 wt base station to 50 wt base station for the range to get to the FRS or grms, I was told the base station has to be 5 wt to 15 wt or 40 wt or 50 wt max, I was going to try that as a experiment to see if that worked, I am already on a hill so the antenna should be fine for 1-5 miles, the frs handhelds go to 1 mile before crapping out, so my question is before I go buy a ton of Murs, grms, FRS is there a simple fix for this or is midland just trying to sell more radios that a person doesn't need, lol

the goal is 2-5 miles and if it works then trying to branch out, i want to be prepared for anything including using it for a back up if something happens and we loose phone or internet service, so i am trying to decide witch one would be good to use, cb is also on the list as well for a base station/ hand-held models, lol

 

[mmckenna]

With your GMRS license you have some options.

A 50 watt base and a 2 watt handheld is going to result in lopsided coverage. 50 watts will work well, especially if you have a good antenna. The 2 watt hand held radio is still going to be problematic due to limitations in the receiver/antenna setup.

I'd get a solid GMRS hand held radio, something that does 5 watts and has provisions for a better antenna.
Add in a base radio (GMRS mobile + a 12 volt power supply) and a really good antenna.

The antenna will make or break a radio system. Figure on spending at least as much on the antenna, mount and coaxial cable as you will on the radio. You don't want to cut corners on that part. The higher up you can safely get the antenna, especially up in the clear away from your home, the better it'll work.
I think with a good hand held radio and a base at your home, you stand a chance for getting the 5 miles you want.
However, if there are a lot of buildings around you, it may have trouble. UHF tends to be line of sight, so if you have a lot of steel reinforced concrete buildings in the way, it may not work.

You really need to focus on the antenna system if you want this to work well.

CB might work well, the problem is getting an efficient antenna on a hand held CB is pretty much impossible.

 

[Akuriko]

Thanks for your input I guess the project will be canceled to do to the fact I live in a basement apartment, I have an antenna set up in my window that's used for my scanner I thought i could do the same without breaking management rules and regulations no antennas outside on the lawn and ect,, thanks for that info i had a feeling it was good to ask the question if i bought a base station it wouldn't work, i had a feeling midland was trying to sell me radios, the funny thing is Uniden and cobra and BTech USA aka beaufang USA never got back to me on the question yet midland said buy 5 to 50 wt radio it will work for your goals, no worries, lol and if 5 wt didnt work they said try 15 wt, lol

 

[mmckenna]

Ouch, yeah basement is going to be an issue.
Only way around that is to run coax all the way up onto the roof and install an antenna. But, your landlord may not appreciate all the effort you'd put into that.

The fact you were getting a mile out of that setup is pretty impressive, though.

 

[Akuriko]

i am trying to get 1.5 miles or more, I just was curious if it was the FRS radios and if I move to grms or if I went murs or CB, i am determined to make it work somehow but I do not know how and since I was told to try grsm me and and my roommate paid the $35 each for our 10-year license, seems something should work with the antenna in the window is what I thought, lol and being on a hill it got out 1 mile, lol I was trying to deep think on it all, anyways thanks for telling me it won't work, I will go and nap now for a bit, lol

my original plan was to try FRS, then if it didn't work, grms, if that didn't work, grsm hand held and base station combo if that didn't work murs and then CB, but I only got to FRS so far, lol

my big brother things get a beaufang R5 you can transmit on murs, frs and grms with no problem, thats what he says, lol

 

[mmckenna]

UHF is your best bet in that sort of environment. You could certainly try a better GMRS hand held radio and an antenna in your window, but it'll be restricted by the lack of altitude. Might get enough RF bouncing off buildings to make things work sometimes.

If you don't mind, which city are you in?

 

[Akuriko]

UHF is your best bet in that sort of environment. You could certainly try a better GMRS hand held radio and an antenna in your window, but it'll be restricted by the lack of altitude. Might get enough RF bouncing off buildings to make things work sometimes.

If you don't mind, which city are you in?

zip code 98250, I'm on the hill 1 mile from the ferry terminal in Friday harbor Washington in the san Juan islands.

 

[Akuriko]

if you curious this is our harbor cam for our island.

 

[mmckenna]

zip code 98250, I'm on the hill 1 mile from the ferry terminal in Friday harbor Washington in the san Juan islands.

OK, I used to live in Seattle. I have a relative that lives over in Brentwood Bay. I used to ride the ferries for fun on weekends.

GMRS is not going to cover the whole island unless you install a repeater.
Also, that far north, there are some limitations on which GMRS frequencies you can use. Make sure you look at the "Line A" limitations in the GMRS rules. Gotta play nice with your neighbours.

 

[Akuriko]

On the island is 99.9% of people do not use FRS or grms that I know of, no the island is 16.5 miles long and 6.5 miles wide I just want maybe 5 miles or about around my home and possible to the lakes otherwise I don't expect it to go far, just wanted simple communications without my cell phone being boosted daily, lol so I thought radios, so I'm still thinking, I saw a guy on youtube use a 5-watt base station in a park and his buddy had an I think a handheld FRS or grms by Uniden, got like 8500 feet, that seems about a good range to get since I'm on a hill I figured a base station and handheld model wouldn't be bad for 1,5 to 4 miles or less, so that was the goal and experiment, then if it worked it can double as a prepper's tool, lol

 

[tweiss3]

On the island is 99.9% of people do not use FRS or grms that I know of, no the island is 16.5 miles long and 6.5 miles wide I just want maybe 5 miles or about around my home and possible to the lakes otherwise I don't expect it to go far, just wanted simple communications without my cell phone being boosted daily, lol so I thought radios, so I'm still thinking, I saw a guy on youtube use a 5-watt base station in a park and his buddy had an I think a handheld FRS or grms by Uniden, got like 8500 feet, that seems about a good range to get since I'm on a hill I figured a base station and handheld model wouldn't be bad for 1,5 to 4 miles or less, so that was the goal and experiment, then if it worked it can double as a prepper's tool, lol

My personal experience, I get exactly 3 miles mobile to mobile, and it does drop out for 1/4 mile in the area I drop in elevation under an overpass. This only works cause my wife is parked on the high ground. Ground elevation to ground elevation, you are doing pretty good at 1 mile. Range opens up quickly when you can get the antenna higher, but as you stated, its not permitted.

Look on MyGMRS.com, there is a San Juan repeater listed that appears to cover all the islands, and there is one in Lookout Mountain that might provide coverage. Both require permission, but that may just be to know who is using what, you should reach out.

 

[kb5udf]

You mention you are in a basement. If you can't get an antenna on the roof, are you allowed to put one in the attic? Depending on the roof and assuming it does not have some type of metal backed insulation, you can do OK with an attic antenna. It's not as good as outside, but still a great improvement from ground level, most of the time.

As others sometimes point out a useful experiment can be to put a handheld up where you want to mount your antenna and then go out to range with the other antenna and see if you have signal. Replacing the handheld with a base antenna for your final installation would generally result in a modest/moderate improvement, but if you can't hear at all during the experiment, then maybe not.

One way do such a range test if it is only you involved is to put a laptop near one of the radios and make a call to your cell with google voice.
That way, you can drive around and know if the other radio is hearing you when you transmit.

Regards,

JB

 

[chief21]

On the island is 99.9% of people do not use FRS or grms that I know of, no the island is 16.5 miles long and 6.5 miles wide I just want maybe 5 miles or about around my home and possible to the lakes otherwise I don't expect it to go far, just wanted simple communications without my cell phone being boosted daily

One solution to your problem could be the use of a GMRS repeater station. Repeaters work best when their associated antennas are located on a high building or other prominent location. If you can secure the use of such a location relatively close to you, you could arrange to purchase/install a modest GMRS repeater (by yourself or in cooperation with others). You should then be able to access the repeater remotely with a handheld or a small base station from your basement apartment without the need for a roof-top antenna. Depending on actual location and conditions, such a repeater could theoretically provide coverage over much of your island.

 

[K6GBW]

Just curious, do you have any interest at all in ham radio? There's likely a repeater somewhere nearby that would cover the island, or at least most of it. A few hours studying and taking practice tests on line and you might be able to solve your problem.

 

[Akuriko]

again I live in a 2 bedroom basement apartment, it seems if I use a ground plane as my ham friend says I can boost the signal using an antenna from the window, give me the time I will take a pic of my window. yes as I was going to say I spoke to my friend who is in California known him for years, he's been doing ham for 50 years I asked for guidance as I got all the books to study as i borrowed them from the library then I might buy my own copy to use ham once I get my license issued., so yes i am intrested in my ham license so i am working on t as we speak.

 

[chief21]

yes i am intrested in my ham license

You will find that the entry-level amateur Technician test is pretty easy, and there are lots of online resources to help you study. This license would give you the ability to use amateur VHF and UHF frequencies (including repeaters), as well as some limited HF frequencies. Be aware, however, that others that you might wish to communicate with (your roommate?) must also be a licensed ham. Best of luck.

 

[Akuriko]

yes I am working on studying for ham so is my roommate, I borrowed more books from the library and when I'm ready I will take the test or buy the books for myself before the test as I want to make sure i pass, i will try to borrow it from the library as much as possible, lol

 

[mmckenna]

yes I am working on studying for ham so is my roommate, I borrowed more books from the library and when I'm ready I will take the test or buy the books for myself before the test as I want to make sure i pass, i will try to borrow it from the library as much as possible, lol

There are sample tests online that use the same question pool as the real test. You can take those practice tests as many times as you want to see where you may need to study more. Learning the basics is important. A lot of people choose to just take the practice tests over and over again until they memorize the answers. That might be good for some, but it doesn't teach the basics.
Sounds like you are doing it the right way.

Good luck on your studies. Amateur radio can be an enjoyable life long hobby.

As always, you are welcome back here to ask questions or seek clarification on what you are learning. There are some very talented people on this site.