Help please, PRO-96 and Morris County NJ Public Service Trunking

[wa2mot]

Today I got my first trunking scanner, a Radio Shack PRO-96. It's a fun radio, it works "except" -. I almost have it working on the Morris County trunking system but no cigar - no Morris County audio yet. First thing I did was copy a bunch of "Preloaded Data" into the 10 banks. I hit SCAN and enabled all the banks and heard a lot of signals where the previous owner's freqs from New England happened to be the same as stuff one can copy from NNJ - also heard a lot of troop-B NJSP which happened to be in there. I overwrote the 1st 12 slots in bank 9 with the red CC freqs from RR's wonderful Morris County page, set the rest of bank 9 to 0 MHz, cleaned out the old bank 9 talk group list and checked that bank 9 was running in "Open Mode". Now, when scanning bank 9 I see a lot of activity in the display, it pauses when a channel is active, displays the freq [low 400's] and talk group numbers matching a bunch in the RR database but there is no audio. The mode is MO. If I try a NJSP CC in bank 9 it works fine, as does conventional 460.025 [Morristown PD] if I add it in bank 9.

Sorry for the long story - anyway any questions and/or suggestions are very welcome - I have run out of ideas. help. TIA
73, wa2mot in Morris Plains

 

[wa2mot]

PRO-96 and Morris County NJ Public Service Trunking

This is not a complete tutorial, I am sure I've made mistakes and haven't yet learned all there is to know, but, as promised, here's what got me hearing the above system.

I noticed that the scanner was stopping on a documented TG #, but the frequencies it was selecting were bogus [410 MHz area] and thus silent. Searching all the RR forums for the PRO-96 I found the post in the middle of the page, 08-09-2006, by ChrisP, here

http://forums.radioreference.com/mo...-trunking-guru-needed-p25-federal-system.html

and thus learned that "just plug in a CC" works for 800 MHz trunked systems, but not 400 MHz "UHF" trunked systems. I searched thru the PDF copy of the PRO-96 User Manual and found this section

"Programming Motorola VHF UHF Trunking Systems" near page 34.

and followed its instructions, using

Base - 476.0000
Step - 12.5
Offset - 520

for the Morris county towers near me and it all started working !! yeah !!

Thanks for your reply robbinsj2, and it's hint that I have more to learn yet - I'll probably return with questions for you later.

One critical question remains - when limiting scanning to TG 33840 {MUN PD 2} is there a way to hear only one of the 3 towns ?
i.e. a way to hear only Morris Plains and somehow lock out Rockaway Borough and Wharton. I figure that the Morris Plains patrol cars don't drive around with their received traffic including 2 other non-contiguous towns and my wish, as a Morris Plains resident, is to hear just my town from my house.

TIA, mot

 

[robbinsj2]

First, please try to keep all posts relating to the same issue in the same thread. You started a second thread initially because you (as all new members) were on moderation and your first post hadn't been approved yet. But going forward, please stick to one or the other which already exist if it's just a follow-up.

Now, if you're only scanning Zones 1 and/or 4 of this system then you're fine. If you are scanning (as in, actually receiving) Zones 2 and 3 at all then your Pro-96 will not function fully properly without using software to program the two custom tables in. You will hear most things, since all but a few channels are handled by the second (476) table, but not everything.

With stand-alone scanners there is no way to hear a talkgroup's calls from only Morris Plains. As long as they're on Mun PD 2 then the MPPD cars are hearing everyone else using that talkgroup. The only way to accomplish what you want would be using a couple scanners hooked up to a computer running Unitrunker or an equivalent.

Also, frankly, a shared Pro-96 tutorial for others' benefit won't be of too much use since the model has been discontinued for some time now. If anything such a tutorial risks confusing other users with inaccurate or incomplete information.

Jim

 

[Highpockets]

With stand-alone scanners there is no way to hear a talkgroup's calls from only Morris Plains. As long as they're on Mun PD 2 then the MPPD cars are hearing everyone else using that talkgroup. The only way to accomplish what you want would be using a couple scanners hooked up to a computer running Unitrunker or an equivalent.

Jim

Jim,

If one had a newer scanner (500/600 396XT/996XT 106/197) and he knew the Unit ID's of the Morris Plains dispatch and cars I believe he would be able to do that.

 

[robbinsj2]

I don't know about the 396/996 but I know it can not be done with the 106/500/197/600. The GRE radios will display radio IDs and let them control an alert (and LED, backlight, delay settings too, I think), so that whenever a known Morris Plains PD radio keys up the scanner beeps, but it doesn't allow you to only receive transmissions from those radios over a shared talkgroup.

If the Unidens are similar as far as radio IDs controlling some settings, and the 396/996 still have the inverse delay (monitor limit) that some Unidens used to, then maybe you could set all other radios to a 1s limit... Anyone got one to try that with?

 

[fmon]

Pro-197 with Win500

We have a brand new 800 P25 system in Hampton VA (started Wed 15 Dec 2010) and it works like a charm.

For 3 days last week I used Win500 in remote with Logging set as in image.
At a later time Unit 208 was recognized with its RID in private mode so I pressed STOR. Did the same with a few other units.

Then Downloaded new data to Win500, edited the ARID: of the RID used by Police Unit 208 and other known units. Just now ran system in remote and first unit logged is my guy 208 calling on dispatch talkgroup.

Unit 208 is still listed in Win500 without any hits because it's STORed in scanner and Win500 with new ARID: tag. It on was TG 107 when I STORed it in Private Mode.
Police Unit 208 Private 107 0

 

[fmon]

During last weeks run in Remote Mode, I also had the box next to Auto creat new TGRP's from Radio IDs checked.

 

[Highpockets]

I thought I remembered reading that somewhere, I was going through my notes and couldn't find it. Set a Unit ID up as Private instead of a Group in the scan list.

Thanks for the reply, fmon.

 

[fmon]

One more detail regarding this subject.
Most Police departments stagger shifts so the whole shift doesn't report at the same time, ie Unit 208 A, 208B & 208C etc.

Guess what, this department started Monday using the last three digits of RID on units out of cycle when making calls or announcing 10-7 etc. But Unit 208 and others which I've identified still show on bottom line of display even though using last three digits for out of shift cycles.

 

[robbinsj2]

But none of this is relevant to WA2MOT's question because programming in individual radio IDs into the 106/500/197/600 only:
1) allows you to receive individual calls (AKA private calls) to and/or from that radio (I can't remember now which)
2) displays that alias when the radio transmits a group call (plus, as I noted above, allows you to have the scanner beep when that radio makes a group call, or the LED to go on/change colors, etc.)

The OP was seeking a way to listen to group calls from only particular radios, and unless the 396/996 gives you a workaround by effectively muting specified radios, there is no way of doing this short of using an advanced setup involving Unitrunker or similar software.

Jim

 

[Highpockets]

But none of this is relevant to WA2MOT's question because programming in individual radio IDs into the 106/500/197/600 only:
1) allows you to receive individual calls (AKA private calls) to and/or from that radio (I can't remember now which)
2) displays that alias when the radio transmits a group call (plus, as I noted above, allows you to have the scanner beep when that radio makes a group call, or the LED to go on/change colors, etc.)

The OP was seeking a way to listen to group calls from only particular radios, and unless the 396/996 gives you a workaround by effectively muting specified radios, there is no way of doing this short of using an advanced setup involving Unitrunker or similar software.

Jim

Well, I think your wrong, so I'll drop my input, back to the original discussion.

 

[fmon]

Jim,
That was a group call, from Police Unit 208 to Chesa Dispatch. I replaced his Private Alpha Tag ARID: XXXXX to Police Unit 208 but left Type as Private and kept XXXXX under Group Then saved and sent back to scanner. When he keyed up his unit number replaced his RID. His private will never record a hit. but that private listing must return to the scanner with his Police unit replacing the ARID.

He later made a BOLO report to all units from a location where he was dispatched for a domestic dispute. That was a GROUP CALL TG 202, which is a citywide All Call talkgroup.

Set Win500 software correctly in remote ops as in my description and let it run awhile. Click File>Save. Have a pad nearby, Listen to Calls and read RID's, match the unit number you heard of the calling unit with his RAD on your pad. Collect the next unit number the same way, etc, etc, etc.
Next, open software and highlight TSYS then go to the listings of Private Calls and replace the alpha tag (ARID: xxxxx (the xxxxx is sane as the RID you wrote on pad with unit number. Police Unit 208 is 15 characters and after making the change from RID to Unit number it looks great on bottom line during His Coms. Any other coms of units not yet changed will still show RID.

 

[robbinsj2]

Jim,
That was a group call, from Police Unit 208 to Chesa Dispatch. I replaced his Private Alpha Tag ARID: XXXXX to Police Unit 208 but left Type as Private and kept XXXXX under Group Then saved and sent back to scanner. When he keyed up his unit number replaced his RID. His private will never record a hit. but that private listing must return to the scanner with his Police unit replacing the ARID.

He later made a BOLO report to all units from a location where he was dispatched for a domestic dispute. That was a GROUP CALL TG 202, which is a citywide All Call talkgroup.

I don't understand -- you're repeating what I've written a couple times already. I *know* that the 106 displays radio IDs and replaces the system's radio ID number with an alias when it's programmed in as a private ID. See #2 in my last post. I've been doing that for months now with dozens of IDs on EDACS and a Type 2 system, further setting it so that my department's radios cause my 106 to beep when it receives their key-up. (Instead of using Win500 in remote mode, I prefer to gather radio and talkgroup IDs using Unitrunker; a different way of gathering the same data.)

But I know of no way to use my Pro-106 in stand-alone mode to hear *only* my department's radios when they transmit on the main dispatch talkgroup and to ignore all other departments' radios when they transmit on the same talkgroup. That is what the OP is trying to accomplish; to hear only his town's PD units and ignore the other towns which use the same shared dispatch talkgroup. If you know of a way to accomplish this using a 106 in stand-alone mode then I would love to read about it.

Jim

 

[fmon]

But I know of no way to use my Pro-106 in stand-alone mode to hear *only* my department's radios when they transmit on the main dispatch talkgroup and to ignore all other departments' radios when they transmit on the same talkgroup. That is what the OP is trying to accomplish; to hear only his town's PD units and ignore the other towns which use the same shared dispatch talkgroup. If you know of a way to accomplish this using a 106 in stand-alone mode then I would love to read about it.

Jim

Im not using Win500 at this moment. My radio is receiving Police Unit 208, Police Unit 117, Police Unit 215 and others on bottom line of display if they initiate the call or if the initiator releases the call and they hesitate in reply. I use Chirp and Blue for PD.

Win500 in remote is just a method to collect the ARID: XXXXX data. After collection, change the alpha tag, leave the rest in that private no hit call as is. Save, send to scanner and close Win500. These Units, with chirp and blue show up on bottom line of scanner display when they key up. The next line up is the tag for the TGRP object.

It appears to me with this scanner one can remove all other undesired radios and follow the chosen radios.


With that, I'm off to bed.

 

[robbinsj2]

I wish my 106 behaved that way. When I scan a talkgroup, I receive all the comms which come over the talkgroup. If I have a TGRP (private) object for that radio ID programmed in then it displays its alias, if I don't then it displays the basic system radio ID number. Further it doesn't matter (for group calls) whether or not the TGRP (private) object for the given radio ID is locked out, the audio still comes over and the alias is still displayed. (All this assumes that the radio ID is grabbed off the control channel by the 106, otherwise it just shows "TSYS" on the fourth line.)

Perhaps you just have all the utilized radio IDs programmed in already, so there is no other traffic to skip? Can you delete the TGRP (private) object, or just temporarily change the number, for an active radio then listen with two scanners side-by-side to verify the one scanner really is skipping transmissions from that deleted/changed radio ID?

Otherwise I don't know what to tell you -- either we have different radios/firmwares (mine is a 106 with 1.8 & 1.4), or there is some obscure setting we have different. My observations are the same for EDACS and Type 2, I haven't played as much with P25, but I wouldn't expect the scanner to behave that much differently for the different system types.

 

[Highpockets]

PRO-96 and Morris County NJ Public Service Trunking

This is not a complete tutorial, I am sure I've made mistakes and haven't yet learned all there is to know, but, as promised, here's what got me hearing the above system.

I noticed that the scanner was stopping on a documented TG #, but the frequencies it was selecting were bogus [410 MHz area] and thus silent. Searching all the RR forums for the PRO-96 I found the post in the middle of the page, 08-09-2006, by ChrisP, here

http://forums.radioreference.com/mo...-trunking-guru-needed-p25-federal-system.html

and thus learned that "just plug in a CC" works for 800 MHz trunked systems, but not 400 MHz "UHF" trunked systems. I searched thru the PDF copy of the PRO-96 User Manual and found this section

"Programming Motorola VHF UHF Trunking Systems" near page 34.

and followed its instructions, using

Base - 476.0000
Step - 12.5
Offset - 520

for the Morris county towers near me and it all started working !! yeah !!

Thanks for your reply robbinsj2, and it's hint that I have more to learn yet - I'll probably return with questions for you later.

One critical question remains - when limiting scanning to TG 33840 {MUN PD 2} is there a way to hear only one of the 3 towns ?
i.e. a way to hear only Morris Plains and somehow lock out Rockaway Borough and Wharton. I figure that the Morris Plains patrol cars don't drive around with their received traffic including 2 other non-contiguous towns and my wish, as a Morris Plains resident, is to hear just my town from my house.

TIA, mot

Sorry I have taken this thread off into a different direction, all of us here are always trying to help new users, I read one line in your post and my mind started to wonder. Sometimes to much info can make matters worse at first, sorry about that!

 

[fmon]

Sorry I have taken this thread off into a different direction, all of us here are always trying to help new users, I read one line in your post and my mind started to wonder. Sometimes to much info can make matters worse at first, sorry about that!

You're correct Steve, wa2mot has a Pro-96 which can't work with RID's. My apologies also.