Help With Antenna

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bjblackout

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I am going to be installing a Pro-197 in my 2008 Ford Expedition this weekend and was looking for some help with an mobile antenna choice. I do not want to drill in my truck so I guess I am limited to a mag mount or a through the glass mount. I wanted to go with something as unnoticeable as possible. With the through the glass ones I have read some post that some glass does not allow for good reception so I am at a loss. I am new at all this so please any info provided would be greatly appreciated. I was looking at the scanner master website and saw the SpectrumForce Wideband with Mag Mount and BNC. Would this be along the lines of what I would need??

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
 

davidgcet

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i would go with mag mount over glass mount anyday. a glass mount just couples the energy and directs it to the pickup on the inside portion, losing a fairly good bit in the process. at least a mag mount has a solid electrical path with less signal loss. make sure the one you get has a good rubber boot under it and it won't scratch up the paint.
 

madhatter66

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See I have the glass mount, on the rear window of my crown vic, and get excellent coverage with it... Even have it within 6" of my AM/FM wire that is embedded in the glass... I guess maybe its a YMMV thing? I have a mag mount as well, and find that its really not different than my through the window antenna...
 

davidgcet

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glass mounts are always the least prefered option for range. magmounts are the next step up due to lack of ground plane. the MM has a slight advantage over the glass mount in most cases, and usually it comes down to personal preference when it does not involve having to transmit. though placement on vehicle can affecct both types of antennas.
 

W2NJS

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A mag mount certainly does have a ground plane, unless it's mounted on a fiberglass hood or deck. The ground connection is in the coax cable, wherever that cable makes contact with the vehicle's ground. And a glass antenna, if properly installed and tuned, works fine. The glass acts as a capacitor, and as we all know, or should know, a capacitor passes any AC voltage (which an RF signal is) and blocks DC voltage. Stick to the basics of antenna theory and you won't go wrong, and also try to avoid ads by the scanner companies (who rely on buyers' ignorance more than anything else) for the "Super Bazookas" and similarly-named antennas. A 19-inch quarter-wave used for monitoring will usually do as good or better job than something that costs a ton of money and does nothing to improve the received signal. And to the OP of this thread, drill a hole in your car's roof and be done with it. When the time comes to trade or sell it won't make any difference at all. A Motorola NMO mount, with coax and u-cut-it whip, will set you back less than $20.
 

N8IAA

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Another alternative is a trunklip mount for one of the rear doors, or the hatch. That 1/4 wave VHF antenna will hear really great. Used that on my F150. No holes, and you get a ground plane. The magmount uses the contact between the magnet and the metal to form the ground. But, most antennas for magmounts are 1/2 wave and don't require a ground to work.
Larry
 

Fast1eddie

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I have seen guys use a cell phone on glass antenna and have decent reception down into the vhf region. Your results will vary-Larsen makes a extremely high quality dual band galss mount antenna marketed to hams, Don't think you would get it in time for your project this weekend though. Just be certain to prep both sides of the glas with the supplied alcohol wipe and if the weather is cool, warm up the glass with a hairdryer to ensure maximum bonding. Without knowing if you reside in a rual or suburban location, the mag mount might actually be best if you do not want a 3/4 hole NMO mount done as this will gratly impact your quality of reception. I've observed the Larsen to work well, prepping the glass is key.
 

W4EMS

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I use the Larsen glass mount dual band antenna for ham. Works as well as any "drilled" antenna I have used which I admit surprised me. And I agree that reading and following the directions for mounting are critical to good install. Also a 2-3 inch piece of heat shrink on the antenna coil stops the whistling.
Doc W4EMS
 

gewecke

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I have to say that drilling to install your quality installation is the rite of passage into this hobby,lol!
But then this hobby is not for everyone.
n9zas
 

RadioDaze

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Drill, baby, drill

I have to say that drilling to install your quality installation is the rite of passage into this hobby,lol!
But then this hobby is not for everyone.

A few months ago I drilled right through the roof of my Lexus RX. (Well, I had the help of a retired pro, anyway.)

When that bit starts turning on the paint, and begins making its way through, and you've measure and calculated 20 times, you still sweat buckets.

But it's mine - it's paid for, and I plan to keep it until it falls apart. And there was really no other options for an antenna on this vehicle, not even a trunk lip mount. I put up a nice, compact little B-10NMO and you can hardly notice it. ProClip-ed the control head to the dash.

The biggest decision was deciding whether to drill for a second antenna while the headliner was dropped, but due to the sunroof, there just wasn't a lot of real estate left. But I had wanted to drill for years.

My point is that if you own the truck, and you are dedicated to radio, you will not lose that much value when you sell, and you can leave an antenna on the mount. But the quality of the signal you will have will more than make up for your worries. Magnet mount... c'mon, it's gonna scratch the heck out of the paint no matter how careful you are, and the coax has to come in somewhere... through a window? What about rain? What about opening the door accidentally while the coax is clamped in the window? And glass mounts? The tales of good reception outside of the narrow band(s) they are intended for are highly anecdotal. A trunk lip mount is the minimum you should do, but you're still closing your weatherstripping repeatedly on that tiny coax lead.

Man up and drill.
 

abbydabby

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go to cellantena.com. take a liik at item # CA-WCLP. this little baby gets it all very good. low band is fare. small glass mount with direct cable no see thru the glass conn. i use it on the west coast of florida. easy on easy off for parking lots ect. so great wife lets me put it on her new explorer great fo vhf 800 digital all bands convential also right now they are on sale good luck kw
 

Mike_G_D

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Phooof! Alot of funky info here!

I have a background in RF engineering and have built and tested a lot of antennas. Firstly, mag mount antennas use capacitive coupling through the magnetic base to couple to the metal underneath and use as a ground plane effectively creating the other half of a dipole and definitely do NOT count on a connection to ground from a coax shield further back in the transmission line - that would seriously make for a very strange antenna consisting of the coax lead as well as the outside antenna element! And most vehicle antennas, mag mount or otherwise, are quarter wave so using the vehicle's body for the other half of the dipole or "ground plane" is essential for proper performance. There are half wave designs which do not require ground planes, however, but they are less commonly used relative to quarter wave whips (for non metallic vehicle body mounts such as fiberglass they are the preferred antenna type). Most mag mount mobile scanner antennas that I have seen are based on the quarter wave design and require a ground plane to work optimally.

Secondly, thru-glass antennas are usually half wave designs because of the lack of a groundplane (pure glass cannot work as such, of course). They capacitively couple through the glass as another poster correctly stated. In theory, there is no reason that a properly designed, constructed, and installed thru-glass antenna could not equal the performance of any other similarly placed end-fed or coaxial center fed half wave dipole mobile whip with direct mechanical-electrical connection to the feed line; in fact, in the horizontal plane, a half wave antenna should ideally outperform a quarter wave with a ground plane. But there are many issues to this. Size-wise, half wave mobile antennas for VHF-low band are basically impractical. Also, for best operation and least interaction with the vehicle's metal body the antenna should be mounted as high as possible and as close to the middle of the rear window horizontally as possible. And the mounting point should be free of any in-glass metal such as rear window heating elements.

Finally there is the issue of capacitive coupling. Ideally, in theory, there is nothing wrong with it provided the elements of the capacitor are designed correctly. Herein lies the problem - the further away from the "ideal" model the more issues you encounter. A real world capacitor, even a very expensive high quality low tolerance one, is not ideal and contains internal resistances and inductances which affect its performance especially in very broadband frequency cases. An "ideal" capacitor has a low frequency limit beyond which its capacitive reactance raises with decreasing frequency but above which it should approach near zero all the way to infinity frequency-wise. In the real world, however, any capacitor will also have an upper frequency limit, usually where it will start to look like an inductor and exhibit inductive reactance. The point is that capacitive coupling wherein random elements are involved, like the metal in the roof plus the paint and whatever other contaminants are present for mag mounts and the glass thickness and type for thru-glass mounts (these elements are essentially forming the dielectric of the capacitor), can become unpredictable especially over a wide frequency range. It's always easier to "tune" an antenna system for a narrow range of frequencies, such as just the cellular 800MHz band, than it is to do so for a very wide range of frequencies, such as needed for typical scanner usage. Even with "multi-band" and "broadband" antennas the system will "detune" outside a certain relatively narrow range of frequencies in some way. Capacitive coupling for attaching the feedline to the antenna (i.e. thru-glass half wave mounts) or for attaching one half of the antenna to its other "half" (i.e. magnetic quarter wave mounts) simply presents another random (given the potentially wide variance in materials forming part of the capacitor) element to the design of the system. Practically speaking, for some cars with certain types and thickness of glass and for certain mounting positions and for certain frequencies, thru-glass mounted antennas work fine - as good as or better than many directly connected antennas. But for others, not so much. The same can be said for magnetic mounted antennas though one can argue that capacitively coupling to half the antenna (in the case of a quarter wave magnetic mounted whip to a metal body) might be less dicey than doing so to the whole antenna (in the case of a half-wave thru-glass mounted whip).

For scanner receive-only usage, wherein reflected energy is not an issue, a cheap and simple quarter wave whip tuned for VHF-high band in the 160MHz range will perform quite well on that band and decently on everything else for local reception. Direct mechanical mounting is, for the above reasons, the preferred mounting method but magnetic is usually fine. Multi-band and wideband antennas may improve reception especially on 800MHz and low band (if designed for those). If your primarily interested in receiving a certain band then simply get an antenna tuned for that band and your reception would be best; for example, if you are mostly interested in listening to the 800MHz band then a 3.5inch whip would be a fine quarter wave antenna with little or no wind resistance meaning that "walking issues" with magnetic mounts at high speed and high winds would be minimal if present at all.

If you decide on thru-glass designs make sure that they are either half-wave designs with center fed coaxial vertical dipole designs or correct end-fed designs with matching for 50 ohms or that a provision for some form of external ground plane is made if they are quarter wave designs.

-Mike
 
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