Help with Border Patrol Comms

[MB]

I haven't been able to hear any Border Patrol comms in my area for a while now. What used to be voice transmissions are now white noise and squawking sounds.

The frequencies still use CTCSS tones (100.0, 123.0, 151.4, 110.9, 206.6). So this makes me wonder if they are digital or not. I have recieved Close Call hits on my BC246T when I am near B.P. units and the frequency is 162.900 with a CTCSS of 110.9.

Some other frequencies that used to be active near my location (upstate N.Y) are: 163.625, 163.725, 163.775, 165.2375, 163.675.

Sometimes it sounds like white noise and other times I hear what sounds like MDC1200 ANI sounds (squawking) with no voice heard at all. The MDC1200 sometimes repeats over and over for several seconds (squawk, squawk, squawk, squawk. etc. ) Click on the link below to hear what MDC1200 sounds like.

Any ideas on what I am hearing???

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/

 

[FPO703]

That's called Encryption. In other words, you can't listen in. Actually, I can't blame them. Considering all the problems on any country borders.....

 

[AZScanner]

I haven't been able to hear any Border Patrol comms in my area for a while now. What used to be voice transmissions are now white noise and squawking sounds.

I've monitored USBP comm's from here in Phoenix from time to time. Every once in a while there's activity in Maricopa county and they can be heard.

I've noticed that one frequency I monitor for them is in the clear, all the time. No problems monitoring. Another one is also in the clear, but p25 digital encoding. Sorry, the scanner they reside in is at home and I'm at work so I can't elaborate on what the frequencies are. I'll have to check my BC-250 later tonight and then if anyone wants them I can post them up.

I also know what the analog fed channels sound like when they are encrypted (thank you George Bush and John Kerry for the Tempe debate and all the great scanning that generated) They sound like the white noise sound you described, followed by a short, high pitched whining sound. The odd thing is, usually their encryption will kill the PL tone too - I use known PL's to keep from getting that white noise sound. Maybe your radio is giving a false PL tone?

Of course I think we all know by now what a digital signal sounds like on a non digital scanner: "B-r-r-r-r-r-bzwshbzwshbzwshbzwshbzwshbzwsh-b-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r." :lol: I could see how P25 would sound similar to a MDC signal. I used to monitor MDC4800 all the time, back when MDT Monitor was so much fun to have. Sounds alot like digital.

My guess is they are using analog AND digital on the channels you are hearing. And since the analog stuff is apparently encrypted, it's a good bet the digital side is also (but it might not be - see if the local RatShack dude will let you plug the freq's into a PRO-96, or find a buddy who has one to check for you). Good luck!

-AZ

 

[WayneH]

The MDC1200 sometimes repeats over and over for several seconds (squawk, squawk, squawk, squawk. etc. )

This is the rekeying of the radios via OTAR.

-Wayne

 

[MB]

Wayne wrote:

This is the rekeying of the radios via OTAR.

What does OTAR stand for?? And why would OTAR rekey the radios? I don't understand the concept.

 

[SCPD]

OTAR stands for Over The Air Rekeying. It is used to change encryption keys on-the-fly. In other words it is done over the radio channel so that the radios don't have to be brought in and physically hooked up to a KVL. It allows the keys to be changed any number of times, therefore making it very secure from any decoding attempts. I have heard it done numerous times in a 24 hour period.

 

[STiMULi]

Something to think about...


I've worked as a computer security consultant and one of the interesting ways of gaining access to a network is through "brute-force". That amounts to trying every possible code until the right one works. Sort of like grabbing a bicycle combination lock and trying all of the possiblilties and then pedaling off with the bike.

The time for cracking the code used to be based on the current speed of an available computer system. They would average out number of attempts it would take to crack the code divided by the number of attempts that the highest speed computer could do it in one day and then set the number of days between password changes to less than that number to keep ahead of the hackers.

As time went by they gradually increased the length of the key in increase the number of attempts so it would be harder and harder to unlock the bike and ride away.

Using a 128 bit key and trying one one password per nanosecond (1 billionth of a second), you would need a 270 trillion years to find the one and only correct password to decrypt the data stored in that communication.

So then they thought "Hell, no one will ever figure that out!".

Then someone did...

HOW?!!?!?!??!?

Distributed processing! They took all the mathmatical possiblities and spread it among a large amount of computers networked together to reduce the time it to to crack the key. If you are familiar with the SETI project it uses a form of distributed processing.

What ever the current DES standard key is now, it probably exceeds the available networked processing time for most small countries in order to "brute-force" crack the key.

With the keys being changed over the air so often, even if you were lucky and were able to crack one key early in the number of possibilities you would still only have that single key untill the next key change.

One more thing... The NSA "records" thier interesting encrypted radio traffic and learns the key after the fact. It may take a long time but the info may be so invaluable that it is worth the wait. PS Radio traffic is rarely worth the effort. Besides that you'll probably end up in jail with whatever you know after your success...

Decryption of encrypted communications =

Food for thought...

Using 10 highspeed computers I could run a program that would crack just about any reasonable computer password in about 2.5 weeks. Easy passwords are cracked in seconds. The chief of police's password for one agency I worked for was cracked in 3 seconds.

Change those passwords often and keep them complex!

Just FYI

 

[MB]

Well that explains it. Damm OTAR! I don't think they are digital, but they sure are encrypted. I guess I won't be listening to the Border Patrol in my area!!

 

[AZScanner]

Something else to think about....

1. If the USBP in your area is NOT using digital, they WILL be soon. Depending on who is in charge and how well they follow orders, they may or MAY NOT encrypt.

2. If you were to get an analog encryption key and used a keyloader to load it into a real Motorola radio, when the OTAR transmission was received, your radio would get rekeyed too - and still work. Until they go digital anyway...

Interesting thread.

-AZ

 

[mancow]

Yea, maintaining securenet systems without OTAR sucks! Especially when the radios are sabers without infinite key retention.

They should put belt clips on keyloaders



mancow

 

[CAPTLPOL1]

Hey Mancow, keep losing that key?

 

[mancow]

Yea, they guys will change batteries or let them die. The other day a saber lost one on its own. The battery seemed to fit tight so I don't know what was up with that.

I wish there was a simple KMC system you could operate through a base setup.


mancow

 

[cjrjr507]

Try scanning these bands for BP comms. 162.8500 - 170.0000 & 170.0000 - 174.0000, 25 khz
Also 408.2000 - 408.4000 & 413.6250 - 414.6250 & 418.8500 - 418.9750, 25 khz
Goodluck

 

[RayAir]

Yea, they guys will change batteries or let them die. The other day a saber lost one on its own. The battery seemed to fit tight so I don't know what was up with that.

I wish there was a simple KMC system you could operate through a base setup.


mancow

I dont like the volatile nature of the keys on securenet radios. That is my only compaint. The keys should be held in firmware to prevent this and if it is determined that a secure radio was lost or stolen then stun or kill it using OTAR!

 

[guadmaster]

I often listed to a Border Patrol helo in my area, freq:162.83000 C151.4

 

[JohnnyGalaga]

Yea, they guys will change batteries or let them die. The other day a saber lost one on its own. The battery seemed to fit tight so I don't know what was up with that.

I wish there was a simple KMC system you could operate through a base setup.


mancow

What is "KMC" ?

 

[JRM5204]

The same thing is going in Philly. I used to get CBP at the airport and marine terminals. Mainly all I hear is the OTAR now and hardly any comms clear or encrypted. They must be using Nextel for there primary communications?

 

[Joseph11]

On what frequency? NET 1?

 

[JnglMassiv]

What is "KMC" ?

Key management center/console. It's the device that generates the tones and such for OTAR.

I dont like the volatile nature of the keys on securenet radios. That is my only compaint. The keys should be held in firmware to prevent this and if it is determined that a secure radio was lost or stolen then stun or kill it using OTAR!

All the past and current Astro radios are able to be configured for infinite key retention.