Help with connecting my shack please

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Hello, I'm new to this site. I am in need of help and guidance please.

I have little technical know-how so please go gently with me!

I have been licensed a good long while but have not been 'active' for much of that time.
I have finally gotten round to setting up my shack after moving. I will not bore you with all the reasons for having the rig etc that I have, I just want to go with it if I can!
I have an FT 817 rig (with power supply) + LDG Z817 atu (battery powered) + MX P50M amplifier (with power supply) + 7 band cobweb antenna.

I know I need a 50 ohm coaxial from the antenna to the shack and I'm okay with the power into the kit. What I am lost with is how to connect atu and amp to the rig and obviously the coaxial. Both atu and amp have a lead to interface with the rig - which one should I connect or do I need a 'splitter' to connect them both? Also should the train be rig to atu to amp to antenna or rig to amp to atu to antenna? Finally, do I need to ground the various equipment to an earth stake?

Any help would be so appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Col
 

K7MEM

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Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
432
Location
Swartz Creek, Michigan
I have been licensed a good long while but have not been 'active' for much of that time.
I have finally gotten round to setting up my shack after moving. I will not bore you with all the reasons for having the rig etc that I have, I just want to go with it if I can!
I have an FT 817 rig (with power supply) + LDG Z817 atu (battery powered) + MX P50M amplifier (with power supply) + 7 band cobweb antenna.

I know I need a 50 ohm coaxial from the antenna to the shack and I'm okay with the power into the kit. What I am lost with is how to connect atu and amp to the rig and obviously the coaxial. Both atu and amp have a lead to interface with the rig - which one should I connect or do I need a 'splitter' to connect them both? Also should the train be rig to atu to amp to antenna or rig to amp to atu to antenna? Finally, do I need to ground the various equipment to an earth stake?

I wasn't able to find the manual for the MX P50M so you may want to check it to verify my suggestions.

There are two wiring sequences to work with. One for the RF and another for Control. The RF sequence is pretty simple and should be Rig > Amp > ATU. The output of the FT-817 should be a good match for the input of the Amp. The ATU then matches the output of the Amp to the antenna.

But both the Amp and the ATU need several control signals from the FT-817. They both need a TX signal, "band data" and/or ALC. These signals are provided by the FT-817 ACC connector. However, there is only one ACC connector and two units that require the signals.

The ATU has two connectors marked "Computer" and "Radio". The one marked "Radio" should go to the ACC connector on the Rig. The connector marked "Computer", according to the manual, is a "pass-through" connection to the "Radio" connector. The manual says that it is for the CT-62 CAT interface cable, but if you're not intending to use computer control, you can use it for other purposes.

The "Computer" connector should be a pin-for-pin matchup with the "Radio" connector. So you should be able to connect the Amp cable to the "Computer" connector. The sequence for the extra Amp and ATU cables should then be as follows:

Rig ACC > ATU "Radio" and ATU "Computer" > Amp ACC

Note that this is different than the RF cable sequence.

However, if you intend to use computer control and/or run digital modes, you would probably require a splitter. This is because the computer would also need access to that same ACC connector. And for digital modes, the Data connector would be used.

I built a digital mode interface for a friends FT-817. It didn't include computer control, so all I needed was the Data connector. I found that the FT-817 does very nicely on PSK-31 using only one watt. No need for the Amp with most digital modes.

Final note. Be careful how much power you run through the ATU. The ATU is only rated at 20 watts whereas the Amp, according to reports, can be pushed to 50 watts with a FT-817. The specs for the Amp say only 35 watts but reviews on-line say differently.

If any of this is confusing, let me know and I will draw a picture.

Martin - K7MEM
 
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Many thanks, but probably need clarification!

Martin, thank you for such a quick detailed response.

I am clearly so out of touch! 'Computer Control' and 'Digital Modes' - I have no idea what those are, oh dear I am a dinosaur!

I hope it is still okay to plug in a mic and give a CQ call...

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm unclear as to what you mean by "Note that this is different than the RF cable sequence." if you could clarify that would be good.

I too have read some reviews on the amp outputs and was a little concerned until I read this gents efforts where he appears to say that the rig on power level setting 3 will restrict the output to a maximum of 30w an level 2 well under the recommended power input. Would 30watts do serious damage? RF Eclectica: MX-P50M Amplifier for the FT817

As I have an interface lead with each of the atu and amp can one be simply connected between the ATU "Computer" and Amp ACC?

While I am 'rabbiting away' I'd be interested in any comments you or others may have with regards to my only real antenna option and it's location: I live on the south coast of the UK on the coastal plain, so no elevation. I do not have a chance of putting up a large array of antennas or long lengths of wire and so I resort to the 7 band cobweb. This will be mounted on my garage flat roof a mere 8ft above the ground! No chance of upsetting neighbours as it can't be seen due to my adjoining property (a bungalow) and surrounding shrubs! What are the chances of long distance contacts?!

73's to one and all and thank you so much for your help so far...

Col
 

K7MEM

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
432
Location
Swartz Creek, Michigan
Sorry for the delay but I have been painting my barn. I will probably be painting for a few days. It has snowed here several times, in the past few weeks, so I am trying to make the best of the current weather.

Martin, thank you for such a quick detailed response.

I am clearly so out of touch! 'Computer Control' and 'Digital Modes' - I have no idea what those are, oh dear I am a dinosaur!

I hope it is still okay to plug in a mic and give a CQ call...

Don't worry, sooner or later you will learn about "Computer Control" and "Digital Modes". If you have ever tried CW, that is considered a digital mode now. If anything, I'm the dinosaur. This year is 50 years since my first anateur radio license.

While calling CQ isn't as common as it use to be, you can certainly call a CQ. A good portion of some bands (e.g. upper end of 40 meters) have been taken over by afternoon nets. But the lower end (7.125 - 7.175 MHz) is usually pretty open. In the evening, things are pretty clear and that's when the long distance contacts start coming in. But that is from my area (60 miles south of the Grand Canyon). Your area may differ. You just have to listen for a while to get a feel for the bands.

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm unclear as to what you mean by "Note that this is different than the RF cable sequence." if you could clarify that would be good.

It's a little hard to describe in just text, so I am attaching a simplified block diagram as I see the situation. That may help to clarify things.

The diagram shows antenna connections and the control signal connections. In the drawing you will notice that the RF connections go from the "Radio > Amp > ATU". But with the data connections they run "Radio > ATU > Amp". And that is because the ATU has a pass through connection.

As I have an interface lead with each of the atu and amp can one be simply connected between the ATU "Computer" and Amp ACC?

Both the ATU and the Amp need the control signals from the FT-817. They may use different signals, but the source of the signals only comes from one place, the FT-817. The ATU has multiple memories. These memories can store the correct settings for various bands (band data) and frequencies (reads frequency via C-IV). However, I am not sure what the Amp requires, as I don't have a manual for it. But my guess would be that it only needs the PTT signal or the "band data". Maybe both.

It may be possible to run the Amp without any connection to the FT-817 other than the RF. Then you would have to switch the bands manually on the AMP, when you change the FT-817.

I too have read some reviews on the amp outputs and was a little concerned until I read this gents efforts where he appears to say that the rig on power level setting 3 will restrict the output to a maximum of 30w an level 2 well under the recommended power input. Would 30watts do serious damage? RF Eclectica: MX-P50M Amplifier for the FT817

Yes, I have read the link. He does a good job of explaining everything, but his configuration doesn't include a ATU. The ATU is the "weak link" in your setup. The manual for the ATU isn't much help. They simply states 20 watts "maximum power input" but don't state how that is measured.

I would recommend starting out with the level 2, to keep the power down. Then you might look into a manual tuner that can handle more power. Manual tuners can usually handle higher power and have a wider matching range. Once you get use to them they are easy to deal with. I bought my tuner at a hamfest for $15. The original owner burned out the SWR bridge and didn't want to fix it. But two diodes and a variable capacitor later, the tuner and SWR bridge was fully working again.

While I am 'rabbiting away' I'd be interested in any comments you or others may have with regards to my only real antenna option and it's location: I live on the south coast of the UK on the coastal plain, so no elevation. I do not have a chance of putting up a large array of antennas or long lengths of wire and so I resort to the 7 band cobweb. This will be mounted on my garage flat roof a mere 8ft above the ground! No chance of upsetting neighbours as it can't be seen due to my adjoining property (a bungalow) and surrounding shrubs! What are the chances of long distance contacts?!

This is a hard one to answer. I don't particularly have a antenna space problem, so I use wire antennas. While I don't have one, the cobweb seems to be a well liked antenna. And no matter how you mount it, it should work good. Maybe not as good as it would be on a 50 foot tower, but still good. but maybe someone else will have something to say about the cobweb antenna.

Long distance contacts is also a difficult question. Pulling in the big DX is often dependent on your skill and perseverance. The skill simply comes with time and patience. I may have a easier time hearing the distant stations because my elevation is 5,500 feet (1676 Meters), in a area that is considered high desert.

I'll be back in case you have more questions.

Martin - K7MEM
 
Joined
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Firstly....Happy Thanksgiving!

Thank you so much for the information, advice and the diagram: which is perfect for me to follow!

I have also made a 'home visit' (courtesy of Google maps) to check out The Barn, not in it's present condition with a new coat of paint of course, as the map is somewhat out of date! Great location...

With my newly gained information, from a new friend, I hope(?), I will now settle down to work out the best way to construct the antenna and run the cables into the shack and piece together all the various components - I'm going to add a fire extinguisher just in case I get over enthusiastic with the power output!!

I can't thank you enough and I hope to make contact with you - 73's G7HDA (now you can see where the 'handle' comes from!!)
 
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