How Does an MDT work and can it be scanned?

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dimab

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How do those MDT's work in police vehicles? Are they using some freq. to talk back to their dispatch/control center and relay information back to the car?

I know the local PD uses them, but I've never seen a frequency associated with the MDTs. Also, if you were able to get the freq they operate on, could you snag the information?
 
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An M.D.T. is nothing more then a computer terminal to put it simply. They are connected wirelessly like a Lap Top would be that is using a Hot Spot or Broadband.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO SCAN THEM.

----JUREK/JERRY
 

oregontreehugger

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Not only is it highly illegal, it's nearly (if not) impossible.

I remember there was something floating around the 'net about 10 years ago on how to decode MDT traffic and "listen in".

That was a long time ago as far as technology is concerned. And I'd be willing to bet those agencies have made some security changes since then.
 

ajpritch

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Also several agencies I know use Sprint or verizon for there MDT becuase using the motorola trunked system real slow compared to verizon or sprint broadband
 
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N_Jay

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JerryNone said:
An M.D.T. is nothing more then a computer terminal to put it simply. They are connected wirelessly like a Lap Top would be that is using a Hot Spot or Broadband.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO SCAN THEM.

----JUREK/JERRY

Many are on private data networks, some are on shared voice and data systems. others (as stated) use data service providers (cellular, etc.) or even Hot Spot WiFi like systems.
 

dimab

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good info

what kind of speeds can an MDT achieve over a conventional freq?
 

ajpritch

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That would go back to which provider and technology they are using. When we used our Motorola Type II system we got 9600 baud. When we used out Sprint and Verizon cards we could get up to 2Mbps download speeds.
 

wa8pyr

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oregontreehugger said:
Not only is it highly illegal, it's nearly (if not) impossible.

Not correct. There is nothing in Federal law specifically forbidding reception of this traffic; as long as it's unencrypted ASCII, it's fair game. This may vary from state to state, but I'm unaware of any state laws forbidding it.

There are likely still a number of older systems out there that can be monitored.

That being said, many agencies are now using encrypted systems, or systems whose format has not been figured out, or systems specifically forbidden as monitoring targets (mostly cellular-based stuff, on cellular frequencies, which are verboten).

And if anyone is monitoring this stuff, I trust they're smart enough to keep quiet about it. No sense poking the sleeping pit bull with a stick...

Tom WA8PYR
 

tuckerone

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Probably a dumb question, however !!!!

If it is illegal to Monitor encrypted signals of MDT's, then why can we listen to APCO 25 systems ?
 

jpm

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I could scan the MDT frequencies legally, I believe its illegal to decipher such transmission as to be able to read such. Anybody could scan the frequencies legally, that is if you like the noise it will make while monitoring.
 

Jay911

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The newest design for these machines and their counterparts (for example, regular laptops running Windows-based software, like I/Mobile from Intergraph) is called "Mesh" networks. It's a kind of a peer-to-peer network sharing operation. Kind of like having WiFi hotspots AND ad-hoc (computer to computer) networking at the same time. Motorola had a demo of this displayed at a conference I was at in early October - imagine a network of antennae on light standards, traffic signals, etc., and in each vehicle as well. Vehicles and other terminals (i.e. a police officer with a Palm-like handheld) connect to whatever tower is nearest them and are 'handed off' to other towers as the need arises, much like a cellular network.

The neat part is when you have a unit that is far, far away from the established wired network. Let's say a fire crew is at a hazmat incident 15 miles up the road from their home city and needs their MDT for entering call info, or getting MSDS sheets, etc. The demo seen at the conference postulates that you could use vehicles as extenders every few miles, so a police car could drive out from the city to a point where he is still getting decent MDT signal, then a battalion chief could drive further out from the police car to his coverage limit, and so on, until the gap between the city's network and the incident was spanned.

Granted, you're not going to want to tie up a whole bunch of vehicles and personnel on a regular basis to do that, but the idea is just being developed now. Perhaps they will have self-contained deployable 'extenders' you can just toss on the side of the road for that purpose.

As for the (il)legality of scanning these things, that's most likely only in the United States. I accept that I may be the only non-American participating in this thread so far, but just thought I'd point that fact out.

My agency is currently using regular (well, ruggedized) notebook computers in its vehicles. The communications are running on a data network called CDPD (Cellular Digital Packet Data, if I recall correctly) which is being phased out. They're looking to have the replacement be able to handle not only the MDT and AVL (Automatic Vehicle Locator) traffic it covers now, but also our text/alpha paging and other non-voice comms (Internet/intranet in the trucks, anyone?).
 

n211cr

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Apco 25 is new standard of a way to convert the voice signals into a digital form, most of these are not encrypted. Digital modes can still be unencrypted and encrypted. We cannot monitor the encrypted P25 channels, as for the unencrypted we can. When it comes to MDT's its very similiar. Probably anymore very few agencies would use a straight ASCII mode (unencrypted) in which it would be fairly easy to decode with a computer. Since most are encrypted it is considered illegal to monitor because you would have to break the encryption first.
 

JnglMassiv

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I can confirm that at least one MDC4800 system exists and there are probably many others. MDTmon works for this type of older system.
 

BryanTheRed

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Even the newer thechnology can be tracked. I know someone who has a computer program and he monitors the channel through his computer and the program decyphers the data.
 

N4DES

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Federal regulations require that all MDT access to NCIC will have to be encrypted by December of this year. If the system doesn't have encryption it will have to be disconnected from NLETS.

The only traffic that can be transmitted on a non-encypted MDT system after the 1st of 2006 will be either CAD or internal traffic.
 

LineNoise

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Hi, i've been been watching these forums for awhile and I finally had something to contribute!!!

http://www.state.il.us/IWIN/


I know Illinois has a contract with Verizon for CDMA and EV-DO access for their laptops. http://www.state.il.us/IWIN/InitiatingService/NetPricing/pricing.htm If you browse through that site it has a lot on information. I'm sure there are some agencies in illinois that still use the old Motorola MDT's, but I know at least Downers Grove and Westmont has something like this.
 

SCPD

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wa8pyr said:
Not correct. There is nothing in Federal law specifically forbidding reception of this traffic; as long as it's unencrypted ASCII, it's fair game. This may vary from state to state, but I'm unaware of any state laws forbidding it.

AFAIK, Texas is the only state prohibiting "interception" of law enforcement MDT/MDC data - encrypted or unencrypted.

tuckerone said:
If it is illegal to Monitor encrypted signals of MDT's, then why can we listen to APCO 25 systems ?

Because they are not encrypted.

KS4VT said:
Federal regulations require that all MDT access to NCIC will have to be encrypted by December of this year. If the system doesn't have encryption it will have to be disconnected from NLETS.

Egg...zactly.

-rick
 

BryanTheRed

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The program I have seen it doesent matter if its encrypted or not! Still decodes it!
 
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