How is unauthorized broadcast enforced?

[NewSDScanner]

I have a radio question since I am new to radio technicality... From what I understand, a person needs a license to broadcast radio. My question is, what enforces this? In other words, the radio transmitter itself doesn't know what a license is so how do we not have joe idiot interrupting police channels with his own Motorola programmed to their frequencies? What prevents the unauthorized broadcast on radio channels and frequencies? Thanks.

 

[Astrak]

There is nothing in a radio that would stop a person from transmitting on a conventional analog channel if the person has put in the correct input/output of the repeater and PL/DPL tones. The FCC will investigate any interference someone may be causing though by intentionally interfering with public safety or business frequencies. There have been a few cases where people have been caught transmitting on frequencies they shouldn't be and have been prosecuted.

 

[davidgcet]

yep, get caught doing it and the fine can be several thousand bucks PER OFFENSE per day. so if you do it every day for a year, you could be fined for 365 different violations should the FCC be so inclined. they take complaints of illegal operations on licensed bands very seriously. the people who make the complaint do not even have to know who is doing it, the FCC can track you down in a short period of time and get you. sometimes they just catch folks even with no complaints, they make drives around various areas and if the guy is either bored or a stickler they will hunt down anything they think is not legal. we used to hate seeing those white vans roll thru town back in the '90's. i don't know what they drive now, it has been years since i saw one and knew what they were.

 

[SAR923]

This is just one more reason why agencies are moving to digital trunked systems. Unless you have a radio that can affiliate with the system, just having the frequencies will do you no good. Depending on the type of system and the type of radio the unauthorized user has, the system can even send a stun or kill code out, making the radio into a brick. IMHO, the ease of acquiring frequency agile radios, which includes a lot of modified ham gear, is one of the main drivers sending agencies to more secure radio systems.

 

[bryan_herbert]

the FCC can track you down in a short period of time and get you. sometimes they just catch folks even with no complaints, they make drives around various areas and if the guy is either bored or a stickler they will hunt down anything they think is not legal. we used to hate seeing those white vans roll thru town back in the '90's. i don't know what they drive now, it has been years since i saw one and knew what they were.

They switched to unmarked black Crown Vics about 10 years ago. The DFing gear is mounted in the trunk while the control heads are mounted in the front seat area. The DFing antennas are hidden within the vehicle itself with only one antenna mounted externally for transmit/receive to look like any other police vehicle.

 

[gmclam]

Let's face it, most of the "rules of society" are just simply obeyed by honest people. We all know there are violators out there. I guess you could call it job security for law enforcement, and provides fodder for scanner listening in the first place.

It should be noted that unauthorized transmitting is a FEDERAL offense, at least in the USA.

 

[rfradioconsult]

Back in 2000 Congress passed a provision allowing local jurisdictions to enact and enforce laws for CB only. All other radio service are still the responsibility of the FCC. However, if someone choses to interfere with a public safety agency the relevent agency has arrested individuals, charged and convicted them, usually under a "interfering with a police officer" or other somewhat relevent state law.

One topic that reguarly shows up is the programming of Public Safety transmit frequencies in a personal radio, the most common reason given is "just in case of an emergency"; just what defines an emergency in your circumstance may not rise to the level that would justify an emergency to the PS agency involved.

Under the Amateur rules there is a blurb about using any frequency in the event of an emergency, a lot of folks read that as a carte blanche pass to transmit on Part 90 frequencies, others interpet it to mean any Amateur frequency; the discussion goes on.

 

[RadioDaze]

Under the Amateur rules there is a blurb about using any frequency in the event of an emergency, a lot of folks read that as a carte blanche pass to transmit on Part 90 frequencies, others interpet it to mean any Amateur frequency; the discussion goes on.

And of course they ignore the other important part "...when no other means of communications is at your disposal."

 

[W2NJS]

Back to the OP's question, the plain fact is that you do NOT want to be on the FCC's list of violators because they take what they do very seriously. You can look up the various letters that are sent by the FCC to violators every day. This information is on the web. It's serious business, no doubt about it. If you pull a rules violation stunt, the next thing you get may be a "Notice of Apparent Liability" from the FCC which describes what they think you did and tells you that unless you can prove otherwise the fine you have incurred will be something like $7,500, or $12,000, or something similar. It's then up to you to prove that you didn't do it which can be nearly impossible to do, especially if you did do what they say you did. As I said, it's serious business, and no one in their right mind gets involved with this kind of thing because you can't win.

 

[NewSDScanner]

Interesting. Well thanks for the answers, I've always wondered about that!

 

[zz0468]

Interesting. Well thanks for the answers, I've always wondered about that!

In many cases where there is harmful interference, the licened agency itself will set out to locate the source. Many larger departments, for example, have their own radio shops. So the radio people will go out and locate the interference. Depending on what it is, it can then be handled locally, or the collected data passed on to the FCC for action. Sometimes when the local sheriff knocks on the door, there is no need to involve the FCC, even though they ultimately have final authority on the matter.

Bottom line, though, is sources of interference can and will be found, and dealt with in any number of ways. It's usually not pleasant for the idiot doing causing the interference.

 

[zz0468]

Under the Amateur rules there is a blurb about using any frequency in the event of an emergency, a lot of folks read that as a carte blanche pass to transmit on Part 90 frequencies, others interpet it to mean any Amateur frequency; the discussion goes on.

Common sense would say that it applies only to amateur frequencies, i.e. a technician accessing extra class frequency sub-bands, as opposed to part 90 frequencies. Part 97 has NO say-so in regards to part 90 frequencies, even in an emergency. Ask yourself where that paragraph in part 97 would apply to a non-licensed person... It wouldn't. And a part 97 license does not impart special emergency privileges in regards to part 90.

In an actual emergency, do what you need to do to save a life. But be prepared to answer why you used the local PD channel when there's almost always other choices.

 

[kb2vxa]

Originally Posted by rfradioconsult
Under the Amateur rules there is a blurb about using any frequency in the event of an emergency, a lot of folks read that as a carte blanche pass to transmit on Part 90 frequencies, others interpret it to mean any Amateur frequency; the discussion goes on.

Only among those unable to interpret the section properly. Rather than posting it here I invite you to look up Part 97 and read it in proper context, basically it says one may transmit on ANY frequency PROVIDED THAT NO OTHER MEANS OF COMMUNICATION IS POSSIBLE. It goes on to say it must be a true emergency meaning life and/or property is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. This section of the rules and regulations applies to Amateurs but I have never heard of a case where a civilian used a police radio to call for help when an officer is in peril and unable to make the call himself and got in trouble for it.

Remember that it must be an extreme case, there is no such thing as carte blanche! I must add that keeping PS frequencies programmed into a ham rig whether or not transmit is enabled is a VERY bad idea since that makes it fall under the same laws as a scanner, in some areas a mobile scanner is illegal. The same goes for a PS radio, simply having one in your vehicle can lead to a lot of questions you'd really rather not deal with unless you are authorized to use it in the line of duty. Eh, common sense should tell you when and when not to use it, right?

"In an actual emergency, do what you need to do to save a life. But be prepared to answer why you used the local PD channel when there's almost always other choices."
That pretty much sums it up.

 

[rfradioconsult]

Imagine your car was broken into at the mall and your portable was stolen, how would you describle it to a police officer taking your report; ummm it had all the local police, fire, EMS and sheriff channels programmed into it for transmit. You might get a ride downtown to explain to the Chief or worse a DHS agent, about the same time some snot nosed kid keys up on the main dispatch channel.

 

[RadioDaze]

That's an interesting angle: exactly what would your liability be if it fell into the wrong hands? You could argue that the snot nose kid could steal an official radio as well, and they'd say, yeah, but we could remotely brick one of OUR radios.

 

[SkipSanders]

Transmit on a modified ham rig on police frequencies, and no matter WHY, and who was dying, your radio will be confiscated at the minimum. The FCC has consistently failed to agree with that being authorized by the 'emergency' clause, which is there to allow a 'novice' station to transmit on any HAM frequency in an emergency, not non-ham frequencies.

Someone did it here in San Diego. Radio confiscated. FCC comment was along the lines of 'Their boat had better be on fire, and sinking, RIGHT NOW, before they even think about doing that.'

Whether or not the FCC gets involved, expect your local cops to treat it as 'interfering with an officer'. Local cops are real good at finding violations of the law.

You're in the same area here as carrying an illegal concealed weapon. If someone's gonna kill you, shooting them and taking the penalties is less painful that getting killed. Probably.

 

[W2NJS]

"Transmit on a modified ham rig on police frequencies, and no matter WHY, and who was dying, your radio will be confiscated at the minimum. The FCC has consistently failed to agree with that being authorized by the 'emergency' clause, which is there to allow a 'novice' station to transmit on any HAM frequency in an emergency, not non-ham frequencies."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fact is that more and more agencies still using analog FM are setting their systems to dual CTCSS where you need one tone for access and the repeater transmits a different tone. Figuring out the input tone is far beyond the capabilities of most of the knuckleheads who would maliciously interfere with PS transmissions, or so most of us probably would hope.

 

[gewecke]

Originally Posted by rfradioconsult
Under the Amateur rules there is a blurb about using any frequency in the event of an emergency, a lot of folks read that as a carte blanche pass to transmit on Part 90 frequencies, others interpret it to mean any Amateur frequency; the discussion goes on.

Only among those unable to interpret the section properly. Rather than posting it here I invite you to look up Part 97 and read it in proper context, basically it says one may transmit on ANY frequency PROVIDED THAT NO OTHER MEANS OF COMMUNICATION IS POSSIBLE. It goes on to say it must be a true emergency meaning life and/or property is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. This section of the rules and regulations applies to Amateurs but I have never heard of a case where a civilian used a police radio to call for help when an officer is in peril and unable to make the call himself and got in trouble for it.

Remember that it must be an extreme case, there is no such thing as carte blanche! I must add that keeping PS frequencies programmed into a ham rig whether or not transmit is enabled is a VERY bad idea since that makes it fall under the same laws as a scanner, in some areas a mobile scanner is illegal. The same goes for a PS radio, simply having one in your vehicle can lead to a lot of questions you'd really rather not deal with unless you are authorized to use it in the line of duty. Eh, common sense should tell you when and when not to use it, right?

"In an actual emergency, do what you need to do to save a life. But be prepared to answer why you used the local PD channel when there's almost always other choices."
That pretty much sums it up.

About 5years ago there was a RN who was on her way to work and came up on a trooper who was struck on a local highway,while removing a tire from the middle of the road. She used his radio to call for assist and stayed to render aid until additional units arrived.
When asked how she knew procedure,it turns out she was an ED nurse.
n9zas

 

[blinkthing]

So is it pretty much impossible for unauthorized transmission on digital trunked systems? Or do some agencies just set it to "allow all", if that's even possible? I know in my area sometimes we have other departments perform assists and mutual aid runs, which means different cities transmit on others' freqs. I should add that this only happens with fire/ems on around the 150MHz area, so it may not even be trunked, explaining why other agencies have been able to broadcast on a moment's notice.

How can one determine if a system is trunked, by the way?

 

[tomhrrs69]

my question is, (probably a dumb one) but if you only program the receive frequency for a PS into your radio, and not the transmit, you would not be able to transmit on the frequency, whether on accident or being a bone head and doing it on purpose, is that correct?