How To Tell If Tier I, II, Or III With DSD+

[CanesFan95]

If you're listening to a DMR frequency with DSD+, how can you tell if the frequency you're listening to is Tier I, II, Or III? And, how can you tell which slot it is (1 or 2) and what the color code is?

If the audio comes out the left computer speaker, is that slot 1, and slot 2 is the right speaker?

Thanks.

 

[Voyager]

Look at the bottom of the Event Log window. If it says Con+, Cap+ it is Tier III. No way to distinguish Tier I/II AFAIK. Both will say DMR.

Slot will be shown on the Event Window and the Channel Activity window. For Tier III systems, the odd numbers will be slot 1 and the evens will be slot 2 on the respective LCNs. (slots 1/2 = LCN 1, Slots 3/4 are LCN2, Slots 5/6 are LCN 3, Etc.)

Yes on the speaker audio.

Color code is also at the bottom of the Event Window. DCCxx is the color code where xx is 0-15.

Just run DSD+ and this should all be clear.

 

[vince48]

Voyager,

That was outstanding. Thank you about the color code in DSD+

vince48

 

[CanesFan95]

What Does RAS stand for and how do you program talk group IDs into a Tytera MD-380? I don't see anything in the software that lets you type in a talk group ID.

 

[CanesFan95]

Is the Event Log showing the slot as "Ch=1" or "Ch=2"? So instead of calling it a slot, it's calling it a channel?

And the column titled Target in the Channel Activity window, is that showing the talk group ID?

 

[slicerwizard]

Look at the bottom of the Event Log window. If it says Con+, Cap+ it is Tier III.

Cap+ and Con+ are Motorola's proprietary DMR trunking protocols; they are not the published DMR Tier III trunking standard. DSD+ displays Tier III for standard DMR trunking.

No way to distinguish Tier I/II AFAIK. Both will say DMR.

Tier I (simplex) will show as DMR MS (mobile subscriber) sync patterns in the console window. Tier II (repeated traffic) will display DMR BS (base station) sync patterns.

What Does RAS stand for

Restricted Access to System; you can't monitor the system with an unauthorized radio.

Is the Event Log showing the slot as "Ch=1" or "Ch=2"? So instead of calling it a slot, it's calling it a channel?

I see slots here.

2015/12/13  03:11:10  Current network:  114
2015/12/13  03:11:10  Current site:  114-1
2015/12/13  03:11:10  Current site:  114-1
2015/12/13  03:11:10  Group call; TG=2 [Slots Techs]  RID=271   Slot=1  1s
2015/12/13  03:11:11  Group call; TG=322 [Buffet]  RID=1201   Slot=2  2s
2015/12/13  03:11:13  Group call; TG=2 [Slots Techs]  RID=275   Slot=1  1s
2015/12/13  03:11:14  Group call; TG=2 [Slots Techs]  RID=271   Slot=1  3s
2015/12/13  03:11:14  Group call; TG=322 [Buffet]  RID=1203   Slot=2  1s
2015/12/13  03:11:17  Group call; TG=1 [Slots]  RID=254   Slot=2  3s
2015/12/13  03:11:21  Group call; TG=322 [Buffet]  RID=1202   Slot=1  2s
2015/12/13  03:11:23  Group call; TG=322 [Buffet]  RID=1205   Slot=1  4s
2015/12/13  03:11:23  Group call; TG=1 [Slots]  RID=277   Slot=2  2s

And the column titled Target in the Channel Activity window, is that showing the talk group ID?

For group calls, yes.

 

[CanesFan95]

Thanks. So the only difference between Tier I and II is one is simplex and the other is a repeater?

 

[CanesFan95]

So if it has RAS, what's to stop me from programming a portable DMR radio for receive only just to listen? How will they know my radio even exists?

 

[CanesFan95]

A lot of the time, I'll see DSD+ scrolling like mad but no one is actually keyed up and talking. Why? Do these DMR systems transmit data like text messages or image files too?

 

[racingfan360]

>So if it has RAS, what's to stop me from programming a portable DMR radio for receive only just to listen
RAS would stop you. Unless you have a radio programmed with the right RAS authentication key then you won't hear anything. Try reading this for more info Ras Key Authentication - Motorola Mototrbo User Manual [Page 336]

 

[CanesFan95]

But if my radio is receive only and is not transmitting anything, what's to stop the radio from decoding the DMR transmissions, just like how I can listen in with DSD+ on the computer speakers?

 

[CanesFan95]

Here's what I'm seeing in the Even Log. It only shows "Ch=1" or "Ch=2" but no slot number. Is there an easy to way to copy and paste the rows of data into a form post?

 

[CanesFan95]

What do the abbreviations "CSBK" and "TLC" mean that keep scrolling real fast? Other times it just says "Idle". And also, what does "BS DATA" mean?

Thanks.

 

[CanesFan95]

Do Tier 3 systems have a dedicated control channel and how can you tell if that's what you're listing to? I found a frequency that is giving some extra information about sites and neighbors and this and that. Wondering what all this means. What's that part at the bottom that says "NL: 4 9 14"?

And how do you interpret the site numbers. Does 115-6 mean the System ID is 115 and there are at least 6 different repeater sites?

 

[cg]

The WIKI or Google will help quite a bit. The ETSI standards are free online as well
MOTOTRBO - The RadioReference Wiki
http://www.wavecom.ch/content/pdf/advanced_protocol_dmr.pdf

What do the abbreviations "CSBK" and "TLC" mean that keep scrolling real fast? Other times it just says "Idle". And also, what does "BS DATA" mean?

Thanks.

 

[Voyager]

Cap+ and Con+ are Motorola's proprietary DMR trunking protocols; they are not the published DMR Tier III trunking standard. DSD+ displays Tier III for standard DMR trunking.

The control channel is proprietary. In general, Tier I is simplex, Tier II is repeated, and Tier III is trunked, and that's what I took the question as, hence my reply, as Trunked DMR (non-TRBO) is very sparse in the USA.

 

[RayAir]

Do Tier 3 systems have a dedicated control channel and how can you tell if that's what you're listing to? I found a frequency that is giving some extra information about sites and neighbors and this and that. Wondering what all this means. What's that part at the bottom that says "NL: 4 9 14"?

And how do you interpret the site numbers. Does 115-6 mean the System ID is 115 and there are at least 6 different repeater sites?

Your screenshot is showing a MotoTRBO Connect Plus system:
115= System ID
-6= Site 6
NL= Neighbor list

MotoTRBO Connect Plus System Planner:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e88pvyt06qsjbxy/System_Planner_-_Conn_Plus_R1.4A(1).pdf?dl=0


Additional DMR information:

MotoTRBO System Planner (Conventional, Conventional IPSC, Capacity Plus, and Linked Capacity Plus):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vlcgddmdcda7dib/MOTORBO System_Planner 6880309T12-YE.pdf?dl=0

Hytera DMR System Planner:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3umzd3z55swfugd/Hytera-DMR-trunking-system-intro.pdf?dl=0

How DMR works:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6enp0ybzvz9n83a/How-DMR-Works-Conventional-Tier-2.pdf?dl=0

 

[Voyager]

And since your NL includes Site 14, there are likely at least 14 sites in that network - perhaps many more.

 

[slicerwizard]

Thanks. So the only difference between Tier I and II is one is simplex and the other is a repeater?

That's what I recall from the docs.

So if it has RAS, what's to stop me from programming a portable DMR radio for receive only just to listen? How will they know my radio even exists?

Your radio will not know how to properly compute the checksums on the link control messages, so your radio will not know which talkgroups are in use. You can tell the radio to monitor group 123, but the radio will never know when they talk.

A lot of the time, I'll see DSD+ scrolling like mad but no one is actually keyed up and talking. Why? Do these DMR systems transmit data like text messages or image files too?

On control/rest channels, it's just the same system status messages over and over. On a non-control/rest channel, it's usually just idle messages.

Here's what I'm seeing in the Even Log. It only shows "Ch=1" or "Ch=2" but no slot number.

Hm. Looks like when you're monitoring a control or rest channel, DSD+ displays channel numbers (ch 1/2 = first/second slot on first RF channel, ch 3/4 = first/second slot on second RF channel, etc.), but when you're monitoring a traffic channel, DSD+ displays slot 1 and slot 2.

Is there an easy to way to copy and paste the rows of data into a form post?

Data from the event log? Sure, just edit the log file with Notepad and use copy/paste.

What do the abbreviations "CSBK" and "TLC" mean that keep scrolling real fast? Other times it just says "Idle". And also, what does "BS DATA" mean?

Control Signaling Block - typically control channel messages related to registrations, affiliations, system status/features, neighbor lists, traffic channel grants, short data messages, ...

Terminator with Link Control - a voice call (typically) just ended; now would be a good time for anyone who wants to reply to key up; otherwise, the hang timer will expire and some other group will get a shot at using the channel.

BS DATA - the repeater is sending (or repeating) some kind of data. Could be AVL or text messaging, or who knows what.

Do Tier 3 systems have a dedicated control channel.

Yes.

and how can you tell if that's what you're listing to?

DSD+ will display TIII at the bottom of the event window.

I found a frequency that is giving some extra information about sites and neighbors and this and that. Wondering what all this means. What's that part at the bottom that says "NL: 4 9 14"?

That's site 6's neighbor list.

And how do you interpret the site numbers. Does 115-6 mean the System ID is 115 and there are at least 6 different repeater sites?

The network ID is 115 and you're monitoring site number 6's control channel.

 

[Voyager]

@Slicer: What type of Motorola TRBO system is linked and transmits bursts lasting a few seconds long every couple minutes? I thought it was Linked Capacity Plus, but DSD+ is only showing it as "DMR" (not Cap+ or Con+). This is definitely a TRBO system and is definitely linked. There is no control channel (ala Connect Plus), and the pulses are much longer in duration and spacing than Capacity Plus systems.