I little help with license and laws.

[kc_hubbs]

Ive been programming radios for our company for close to a year now. We have a FCC license to use a business pool frequency, and I have been programming new radios to this frequency when ours break.

Now, the company has asked me to check into getting 2 way radios for other locations. They are asking me to find the cheapest way to do this, so i was needing a little help.

Each site would need around 10-20 2 way radios. All would be handheld(5 watt), however, a couple base stations (25watt) would be nice to have if possible. No site would need to communicate with another site, so no repeaters would be necessary.

All of our sites are pretty far away from other business/houses so i wouldnt count on any interference from using GRMS or MURS. However, I am very new to this.

Can anyone offer some insight to make sure I do this right, and by law ?

 

[jaspence]

Radios

MURS and GMRS are open to the general public and would not be the best choice. Depending on the place of use, the following link may help. https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-DTR410-Digital-Site-Two-Way/dp/B000BJ5S20

 

[DaveNF2G]

You need to contact the appropriate frequency coordinator for the type of service you intend to use.

Your company could save itself a lot of time and potential hassles if it hires a radio shop to do the legwork.

 

[mmckenna]

Contact a frequency coordinator, tell them what you have now, what you want to do. Getting frequencies in the same band as your existing radios will make things easier and allow radios to move between sites. Going with a separate band/technology might save a few bucks in the start, but long term it can complicate things.

Unless your existing license specifically covers the entire geographic area you currently and plan to operate in the future, you'll need to coordinate a new frequency.

The coordinator can assist with the FCC filings. Having that assistance will speed the process and assure you get it done right the first time.




You -might- be able to apply for some itinerant frequencies, but that takes a bit of knowledge and assumes a bit of risk. If your company is wanting to do this correctly/legally, and do it right the first time, work with a frequency coordinator or at minimum, a local shop that will assist with the process.

 

[ko6jw_2]

The use of itinerant frequencies requires a license, but does not require frequency coordination. Power output is limited. I recently licensed some DMR 5 watt HT's for use in Alaska, but I asked for nationwide coverage not just the local area. The licenses were granted subject to the usual limit on operation near the Canadian border. It took 30 days and was all done on line. GMRS is not legal for business use anymore. The great thing about using DMR on shared frequencies is you won't hear the analog users and your signal will sound like noise to them.

 

[RadioGuy7268]

Itinerant means you're moving around from job to job - ie: not a "fixed" location. If you're going to get a license, shouldn't you do it right?

Jaspence threw out a link for DTR radios - license free 900 MHz radios that work well, have multiple groups, and are decent radios with really good range for the price - @ $200+/- each. Probably worth investigating in this scenario.

The OP did ask about licensing though - so in a nutshell, you should get a license if you plan to operate in the UHF or VHF bands with 5 watts or more. If you only need 2 watts, that would get you into some relatively inexpensive MURS VHF without needing a license.

Does the OP have a particular type of radio they're using or want to use? A 25 watt "base" was mentioned. Are there coverage concerns in play? Do any of the buildings or locations need a repeater for better/ more complete coverage?

I'll add my voice to those that say you should be calling a Frequency Coordinator & getting some independent advice that isn't tied to someone selling hardware. My favorite for the Business bands is EWA - Enterprise Wireless - 800.482.8282

 

[ipfd320]

Why is This Going Array--The OP Posted in the 1st Paragraph that They Already have a License for a Business Pool Frequency

(Quote by Radio Guy--The OP did ask about licensing though)---> NO he did Not Read Again

Why Cant He Use the Same License and Modify the License to Add the Additional Locations with X Amount of Radios In Play

I See They Want to Go the Affordible Way Around This--I Would Look Into a Government Auction on Radios Depending What Band Your Lookin At (vhf / uhf)

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm



and Yes if All Else the 900 radios Mentioned is a Good Idea--No License Needed

https://www.discounttwo-wayradio.com/models/rca-radios

 

[alcahuete]

Yep, we're making this WAY more difficult than it needs to be, as ipfd320 said.

The OP's company has a license. You get a frequency coordinator and modify your license for the new location, radios, and frequencies.

That's it. Done deal. It's a very simple process.

 

[RadioGuy7268]

(Quote by Radio Guy--The OP did ask about licensing though)---> NO he did Not Read Again

I suggest that YOU read the title of the thread - the one that the OP created. He needs help with License & Laws.

 

[DaveNF2G]

As someone else mentioned, take GMRS and FRS off the table. They may not be used lawfully for the application in question.

Whether you already have a license or not, if you are expanding beyond your current authorizations, you need to go through the coordination and application process again. You can probably amend your license, unless your new locations are far enough apart that separate callsigns (or a substantially larger coverage area) would be required by FCC rules.

If all of this is new to you, then you should not be the one handling the job on your own. Assigning employees with technical ability but without regulatory knowledge to set up company communications is a potential major liability exposure for the employer. FCC fines for mistakes can be huge, on the order of thousands of dollars per day. Then there's the issue of who is liable (IOW who can be sued) if something goes wrong because of a radio problem.

I would be flattered to be asked to do a job like that, but personally, I would have to decline. There are far better qualified and indemnified entities for the task.

 

[kc_hubbs]

Ill be the first to admit, that I am in no way someone who should be in charge of this, but were kind of in a bind and I just needed some information. I would much rather stick to IT, PLC and RSO work.

We have a local shop who originally set up our radios, and got out license for us, however, they have began to have financial trouble and are charging a a little too much. We got a box of CP185 radios about a year ago, and I called to ask if they could program the radios to our frequency, and they asked for $95 per radio.

The different locations we have do not need to be able to talk to each other.
Our job sites dont move. Radios stay on the job site.
No repeater needed, the 25watt radios are just nice for when we go about 3 miles from our main site to check equipment . The 25 watts are nice, but not needed. We use Motorola PM400s right now in our vehicles.

Would anyone be able to estimate on what a price would be to obtain a new license, and a new frequency would be ?

I only ask since its mostly the workers asking for these radios. The company is wanting to put much money into it. Im just trying to see what I can get done with what I have to work with. One of my biggest concerns is that the workers would be responsible for paying for their own radios. So, cost of a radio is a big concern.

 

[kc_hubbs]

Is there any literature I can read that would help me understand all of this ? I really am interested in all of this.

 

[alcahuete]

Would anyone be able to estimate on what a price would be to obtain a new license, and a new frequency would be ?

You likely don't need a new license. You just need to modify the existing license for the new locations, radios, and frequency. It's usually anywhere from $200-300 for the frequency coordination, $70 FCC Fee for license modification, and potentially a couple hundred more if you need to have someone fill out the FCC Form 601 and submit it for you. Sometimes the frequency coordinator will do it for you, sometimes times not.

The frequency coordination fee is normally per site.

 

[kc_hubbs]

Thanks so much for that info.

Im trying to locate some cheaper 2 way radios right now that meet Part 90. Our radios take a lot of abuse......wet and muddy environments, multiple different kinds of chemicals, and a we use powder that is crushed iron ore which causes it to stick to the magnets in the speakers on radios.

 

[alcahuete]

You're welcome! It really is a simple process. It's just a matter of contacting a frequency coordinator to kick things off.

As far as radios, radios that take that kind of abuse and cheap usually don't go well together. You would likely be looking at used radios from one of the big manufacturers.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks so much for that info.

Im trying to locate some cheaper 2 way radios right now that meet Part 90. Our radios take a lot of abuse......wet and muddy environments, multiple different kinds of chemicals, and a we use powder that is crushed iron ore which causes it to stick to the magnets in the speakers on radios.

If all you need is a basic analog radio, most of the big manufacturers make several. Pretty easy to find one in the $250 range.

Avoid the cheap Chinese stuff. For those sorts of environments, you need something your staff can rely on. While you can get some cheap gear, make sure you look at the long term costs. Consider replacement batteries, chargers, antennas, things that can be expendable in some cases. Those costs are really important in the long term.

 

[mmckenna]

We have a local shop who originally set up our radios, and got out license for us, however, they have began to have financial trouble and are charging a a little too much. We got a box of CP185 radios about a year ago, and I called to ask if they could program the radios to our frequency, and they asked for $95 per radio.

That's way too much. Full on bench time is around $85.00/hr locally. Programming a radio takes 10 minutes tops.

The different locations we have do not need to be able to talk to each other.
Our job sites dont move. Radios stay on the job site.

Understood, however keeping everything standard can save you headaches down the road. Shouldn't be an issue to get a frequency or two on the same band you are using now.

I only ask since its mostly the workers asking for these radios. The company is wanting to put much money into it. Im just trying to see what I can get done with what I have to work with. One of my biggest concerns is that the workers would be responsible for paying for their own radios. So, cost of a radio is a big concern.

OK, interesting approach.
Your company, as the licensee, has some requirements to make sure the radios used under their licenses meet the appropriate FCC requirements. Letting employees buy their own radios can be risky, as it's really easy for someone who doesn't understand this subject to get a radio that doesn't meet the FCC requirements. And there are far too many sources of inappropriate radios.
It would be wise for your company to either supply the radio, or at least force a standard product.

Like I said above, lots of options out there for durable radios in the $250 range.

 

[nd5y]

Is there any literature I can read that would help me understand all of this ? I really am interested in all of this.

The menu on the left side of this page has a section on licensing.
https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/industrial-business