ICOM IC2400A Mic problem

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topgun1986

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Finally got my first transceiver hooked up and ready to hit the airwaves but mic does nothing when I key up.

I have tried searching the web and this forum search option here, with no luck regarding this issue.
It is a HM-14 DTMF mic with the frequency key OFF/ON switch on the back. Either position does not make a difference. Frequency cannot be changed with the mic like I believe you're supposed to be able to. Transmit icon does not appear either when I try and key mic up. I've read through manual and trouble shoot section but nothing seem to give me any ideas. The L lock feature on the transceiver itself is not turned on, so it cannot be that.

Bought used off the internet, in which seller claimed the rig worked fine; which it may very well have. Have not been able to get in touch with seller as of yet. Anyone else have any similar issues with this type microphone?
 

mmckenna

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The switch on the back only controls the frequency up/down buttons, not the PTT.
While I've never used one of those mics, I have repaired a number of Icom microphones over the years. What I can suggest looking at is the actual push to talk switch. On the newer microphones they seem to last a year or two then fail. I've replaced a number of the actual switches. That's an easy test with a continuity tester or a multimeter.
The other common failure is the microphone plug. With all the pulling and twisting they do, it's not uncommon for the conductors in the cord to become broken. Again, this is an easy test.

You can test the radio by taking the mic off and very carefully shorting together pins 5 and 6. This should key up the radio. Here is a wiring diagram for the mic and the connector:
Icom HM-14

Microphones take a real beating, and it's not uncommon to need to replace or repair them occasionally. I've got a couple of commercial Motorola mics that are on my bench right now being repaired. One thing you might discover if you ever get the opportunity, try out a modern commercial grade microphone from one of the "big" vendors and then compare that to the microphone offerings from the ham radio companies. You will notice a big difference in design, feel and quality. Amateur radio mics have always been disappointing to me, they seem so poorly built. About the only ones I like are the modern Kenwood mics like used on the D-710, they are pretty well built and have a nice feel to them.

Good luck!
 

topgun1986

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Ok, I shorted together pins 5 & 6 and sure enough "TX" lights up on my rig. Thanks for that tip! At least now I know it is the mic and not the radio.

Could this be a easy fix or is it possible to find a replacement mic for under $20 or so online? Just seems odd it worked fine when it shipped from seller and now is DOA.
 

mmckenna

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OK, that's a good start. That at least narrows it down to the mic, as you said. Likely your radio is just fine. As I said, the microphones take the beating, so this isn't to be unexpected. As you can imagine, the eBay seller telling you it worked before it shipped, and now it doesn't raises some red flags. Inquiring with the seller will just result with the same story, "it worked when it was here". You could try asking, but I doubt you'd get any help. Negative feedback might help others, but don't completely rule out damage in shipping.

Well, next thing to do is carefully take the microphone and plug apart and start checking for continuity between the pins on the connector and the inside of the mic. At this point, if you don't own a multimeter, it's time to get one. As a ham operator, you will need one, and it will become your new favorite tool. You don't need an expensive one, but beware of really cheap ones. I own everything from $300 Fluke brand meters down to one I picked up at Harbor Freight for $3.00. Unless you are really strapped for cash, don't waste your money on the $3.00 Harbor Freight unit. They do work, but will fall apart quickly unless you baby the heck out of them. A good one that I recently purchased to keep in the tool box in my truck was the VC-97 model that's sold by a number of sellers on e-Bay. At $30, it's one of the better ones I've seen for the price. For the average user, it will work just fine.
The next trick is learning how to use it. There are primers on line, so I won't cover it here. Don't expect the owners manuals to be much help.
Use the continuity tester setting to start checking between the pins on the mic connector and the inside of the mic. If they all check out and pass a visual inspection, then check the actual push to talk switch. This is often a little push button mounted on the circuit board. It may be hard to check as you may need a second pair of hands. Put the leads on the pins, there should be three. One of them will be the common. The other two will behave differently depending on the switch. Testing continuity between the common and one of the pins should show continuity when the PTT is not being pushed and the other one will be open. Performing the same test again while someone pushes the PTT button should show the opposite.
If it does't work that way, then likely that is your culprit. Looking at the wiring diagram for that microphone shows it's a very simple circuit. The push to talk line from the radio is just connected to the radio ground to put it into transmit mode. Replacing this button may be easy, finding the exact part will be a bit more work, but not impossible. Likely the little button, if it is like the ones I've replaced will be quite inexpensive, on the order of less than a buck. Down side is that you'll spend more on shipping or minimum orders to get the part. It may be unlikely that your local radio shack will have it in stock. If you have a really good electronics store in your area, they will be of more help.

As for finding a new one, good luck. Due to the failure prone nature of these, it can be difficult to find replacements. Often people just want a new one rather than fixing the one they have. You can start searching, but it's unlikely you will find a "new" one. Likely what you'll find, if you can find any, is used ones that may be in the same shape yours may be in. If you do find them, expect to pay a premium. I doubt you'll find one in good shape for $20.
 

N4KVE

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Take the mike apart, & with it plugged into the radio, try to push the small button on the transmit switch to see if it works. Sometimes due to wear, the ptt lever is worn, & doesn't push the switch far enough. I have fixed this by inserting some thin cardboard [matchbook cover] to shim the ptt lever & it pushes the switch more & it works. GARY
 

kb2vxa

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To simplify this mess, you give the mic model number but not the transceiver. All are not wired the same so just because it plugs in doesn't say it's a correct match. The simplest way is look at the pin-out for the mic and the rig, make sure you have the wiring right.
 

topgun1986

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Ok, regarding continuity test on the PTT "device" with (3) pins on the mic circuit board...

Test #1...

Without the PTT button pressed, I get continuity between the two outer pins.
With the PTT button pressed, I lose continuity between the two outer pins.

Test #2...

Without the PTT button pressed, I have no continuity between the 1st & 2nd pin.
With the PTT button pressed, I get continuity between the 1st & 2nd pin.

Test #3...

With the PTT button pressed or not pressed, I get nothing between the 2nd & 3rd pin.
PTT button seems to have no effect on the continuity of these two pins.

Test #4...

My HM-14 mic end has (8) "holes", each numbered 1 thru 8.
-Hole #1 (MIC input)... I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #2 (9 VDC Output)...I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #3 (FREQ up/dwn)...I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #4 (Squelch switch).I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #5 (PTT).................I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #6 (GND/PTT GND)..Nothing....no wire comes out of the mic cable that matches this hole.
-Hole #7 (GND/MIC GND).I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #8 (Main Band AF Output)..Nothing...no wire comes out of the mic cable that matches hole.

So I seem to have continuity between all mic cables as I should except for the fact that there are (8) holes/inputs on one end of my mic cable but only (6) cables come out the other end where they terminate into the microphone.

Please forgive my long winded results and ignorance to what may seem obvious to some others here.
 

topgun1986

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Perhaps a resistor or such has gone bad on the mic circuit board. Just from looking though, nothing seems burnt up or damaged, though I'm not an electronics expert.

For what it's worth...
There is a brown wire terminated on one end to the circuit board and just coiled around some other cables, not terminated to anything on the other end. It may have come from the factory this way 20+ years ago. Or it may have come loose from something during shipment. I do not see anywhere on the board where it could have terminated to. When I initially pulled the front & back of the mic apart, it looked like it had been smashed between the two. So it probably did not come loose during shipment.
 

k3cfc

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Ok, regarding continuity test on the PTT "device" with (3) pins on the mic circuit board...

Test #1...

Without the PTT button pressed, I get continuity between the two outer pins.
With the PTT button pressed, I lose continuity between the two outer pins.

Test #2...

Without the PTT button pressed, I have no continuity between the 1st & 2nd pin.
With the PTT button pressed, I get continuity between the 1st & 2nd pin.

Test #3...

With the PTT button pressed or not pressed, I get nothing between the 2nd & 3rd pin.
PTT button seems to have no effect on the continuity of these two pins.

Test #4...

My HM-14 mic end has (8) "holes", each numbered 1 thru 8.
-Hole #1 (MIC input)... I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #2 (9 VDC Output)...I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #3 (FREQ up/dwn)...I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #4 (Squelch switch).I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #5 (PTT).................I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #6 (GND/PTT GND)..Nothing....no wire comes out of the mic cable that matches this hole.
-Hole #7 (GND/MIC GND).I get continuity between it and where it terminates onto the mic board.
-Hole #8 (Main Band AF Output)..Nothing...no wire comes out of the mic cable that matches hole.

So I seem to have continuity between all mic cables as I should except for the fact that there are (8) holes/inputs on one end of my mic cable but only (6) cables come out the other end where they terminate into the microphone.

Please forgive my long winded results and ignorance to what may seem obvious to some others here.

If all else fails EBAY RIGHT NOW item number
230880413085 this is the only listed.

Good luck
hope this helps
 

k3cfc

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Perhaps a resistor or such has gone bad on the mic circuit board. Just from looking though, nothing seems burnt up or damaged, though I'm not an electronics expert.

For what it's worth...
There is a brown wire terminated on one end to the circuit board and just coiled around some other cables, not terminated to anything on the other end. It may have come from the factory this way 20+ years ago. Or it may have come loose from something during shipment. I do not see anywhere on the board where it could have terminated to. When I initially pulled the front & back of the mic apart, it looked like it had been smashed between the two. So it probably did not come loose during shipment.

Chances are there is a wire broken in the mic cord probably at the plug. i would check to see it i had continuity in all of the wires from the plug to the inside of the mic itself. if i was close to you i would show you instead of ridicule you. ( a mess hmmmm)

Good luck

K3CFC
 

ramal121

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No, don't be looking at resistors or anything else. The problem lies in the switch, cable wires or the connector.

This is my HM-12. It's old as dirt so it may be different. There is wire from pin 6 (PTT GND) to the common terminal of the switch and it's black. Pin 6 to this terminal should show continuity. Pin 5 (PTT) goes to the normally open side of the switch which is the green wire to the middle terminal and should have continuity between the two. Lastly you can put your meter on both pins 5 and 6 and that should show continuity when the PTT button is pressed. You can also put your meter right across the switch terminals to see if that doing what it's supposed to. That's all you should be looking at.

The other terminal on the switch with the second green wire runs back through the up/down buttons. As a note, if your PTT ground to pin 6 was bad (open), your up/down buttons won't work either.
 

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topgun1986

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Ramal121...

My HM-14 mic CABLE has (6) wires. From the mic plug to the mic circuit board, I have continuity on all (6) of these cables.

BUT...
the HM-14 mic PLUG has (8) female slots.
When I took the mic plug apart, there are (8) pins on the backside with the (6) wires soldered to (6) of the pins. Pin #6 (GND/PTT GND) and Pin #8 (Main Band AF Output) have nothing connected to them.
Which must have been built this way from the factory.

Is it possible to find another brand mic that would possibly work with this certain transciever? It wouldn't necessarily have to be the exacty same brand/type would it?
 

mmckenna

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Is it possible to find another brand mic that would possibly work with this certain transciever? It wouldn't necessarily have to be the exacty same brand/type would it?

Unlikely another brand would work. There is no standard amongst these things, microphone impedance, PTT method, and the sheer number of wiring configurations would make a match between brands highly unusual.

You MIGHT find that a similar Icom radio built about the same time would have the same configuration, but likely if that was the case it would have the same part number.

I think you solution is to fix what ya' got or try to find a "new" one that works.

I wouldn't give up on this one too quick. There are some talented people here and a lot of years of information. Stick with it and you'll be really happy that you fixed it rather than just purchased a new one.
 

mmckenna

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You could search and see if a base microphone was offered as an accessory for this radio. It's probably going to be hard to find one, but it's worth a shot.
 

topgun1986

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The Icom SM-8 base microphone was an accessory for this model rig, but they seem to be just about as rare as the original mic, just as you mentioned. Plus, the base mic does not have the DTMF keys, so I suppose manually entering a certain frequency would be out of the question with that base model.

Possibility # 1)
What if the cables were not FULLY connected/soldered to the pins on my mic plug, but just good enough to get continuity on a test? I ask because I took the mic plug apart AFTER doing continuity test on all pins/cables, which all tested fine, and (2) cables immediately detached from their respective pin; as if years of pulling on the plug finally got the best of their soldered connection.
I'll buy a good iron & solder them back to the pins ASAP. Perhaps that is all it is.

Possibility # 2)
When I initially pulled the mic assembly apart, I noticed one of the cables from the "UP" button (on top of the mic) had a bare spot on it, like it had been crushed at some point, when the mic assembly had been put back together. Could this bare spot on the crushed cable have shorted out to the circuit board frying the entire assembly? I did not see any black or burn marks behind the wire like you normally would with a shorted wire. Just a thought.

Thanks everyone for all the help!
 

mmckenna

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The Icom SM-8 base microphone was an accessory for this model rig, but they seem to be just about as rare as the original mic, just as you mentioned. Plus, the base mic does not have the DTMF keys, so I suppose manually entering a certain frequency would be out of the question with that base model.

Yeah, I figured that would be the case.

Possibility # 1)
What if the cables were not FULLY connected/soldered to the pins on my mic plug, but just good enough to get continuity on a test? I ask because I took the mic plug apart AFTER doing continuity test on all pins/cables, which all tested fine, and (2) cables immediately detached from their respective pin; as if years of pulling on the plug finally got the best of their soldered connection.
I'll buy a good iron & solder them back to the pins ASAP. Perhaps that is all it is.

Uh, yeah, that could be it for sure. Figure out where they came from using the schematic I posted earlier and that would be a safe thing to do. Especially if they came off pins 5 and 6, which are for the PTT.

Possibility # 2)
When I initially pulled the mic assembly apart, I noticed one of the cables from the "UP" button (on top of the mic) had a bare spot on it, like it had been crushed at some point, when the mic assembly had been put back together. Could this bare spot on the crushed cable have shorted out to the circuit board frying the entire assembly? I did not see any black or burn marks behind the wire like you normally would with a shorted wire. Just a thought.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

Could be. The voltages involved would not be enough to cause any sort of visible damage.

I'd get yourself a soldering iron, as you suggested, and fix the two pins and try again.
 

topgun1986

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Will definitely give an update after I resolder the pins.

But until then....

Why are there (8) pins on the mic plug, but only (6) wires in the cable?
Perhaps that's why its named the HM-14 and not the HM-12, like Ramal121 mentioned he owned in an earlier post.

To add to my confusion, pin # 6 (GND/PTT GND) does not even have a wire connected to it, but pin #6 and #5 are the two which I shorted together on the transciever to get the "TX" to initiate. So in theory, how does pin #6 on my mic plug even perform anything useful if it never even had a wire terminated to it from the factory?

Same thing with pin #8 (Main Band AF Output) in the mic plug; the pin has no wire connected to it from the factory.
 
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