Icom LMR to monitor a trunked NXDN 9600 system conventionally

[pro106import]

I have tried Kenwood NXDN radios to monitor a NXDN Type C system by entering the channels in conventionally and scanning them, but the audio does not unmute without having a system key. I would like to try this using an Icom NXDN type radio like the F4360DS but was wondering if anyone has actually had success. It is a multisite system with each site having its own control channel and it is a 9600 narrow system. I do use a Whistler scanner presently to scan but would like to use something with better audio and sensitivity. I know this works on Icoms with 4800 systems, but I need to know about 9600 systems.

 

[mmckenna]

I run a Kenwood NexEdge system and I can tell you that the packets from the trunked systems are tagged as such, and a Kenwood radio will not unmute for trunked traffic. The only way to do it is to have the radio set up with the system key, and to have the radio registered on the system (radio ID/ESN loaded into the system, and on mine, ESN and Radio ID have to match).

Since my system is 800MHz, and Icom doesn't make an 800MHz NXDN radio, I've never been able to try it. I don't have access to an Icom system, either.

I've heard many claim it can be done, but after 10 years, no one has ever shown proof that it works on a Type C system. I'd love to hear if it actually does.

 

[pro106import]

I run a Kenwood NexEdge system and I can tell you that the packets from the trunked systems are tagged as such, and a Kenwood radio will not unmute for trunked traffic. The only way to do it is to have the radio set up with the system key, and to have the radio registered on the system (radio ID/ESN loaded into the system, and on mine, ESN and Radio ID have to match).

Since my system is 800MHz, and Icom doesn't make an 800MHz NXDN radio, I've never been able to try it. I don't have access to an Icom system, either.

I've heard many claim it can be done, but after 10 years, no one has ever shown proof that it works on a Type C system. I'd love to hear if it actually does.

Yes I can tell you first hand also that it doesn't work with Kenwoods. I have seen others report success with Icom radios on 4800 systems, but I am still waiting to see some success story with 9600 as you are. Hope someone gives us the answer!

 

[mmckenna]

Yes I can tell you first hand also that it doesn't work with Kenwoods. I have seen others report success with Icom radios on 4800 systems, but I am still waiting to see some success story with 9600 as you are. Hope someone gives us the answer!

4800 or 9600 shouldn't make a difference. The type/brand of trunking system/radio does.

I'd love to hear if it actually works. I've had people tell me they've found ways around the Kenwood setup, but when you ask them for details, they never provide any.

And I love the way Kenwood did this. I had a Motorola SmartNet trunked system before this one. At some point my predecessor let one of the local Motorola shops program up some mobiles for us. We gave them the codeplug and said "use these ID numbers and give us the serial numbers you assigned them to". Never happened. When I was working on rebanding the system, we found a whole bunch of radios that all had the exact same ID. Made it a pain to manage the system, especially if a radio was lost/stolen and we had to shut it down. All of a sudden having 20 or so radios stop functioning made it clear the Motorola shop had screwed us.

Kenwood allows you to lock the system down to require both radio ID and ESN be in the system. I've gone as far as to lock it down that the ESN and Radio ID must match what is in the system. In the case of someone trying to clone a radio (I have them all password protected), it still won't let them in. I've got 100% control over the subscribers and that makes my life easier.

 

[pro106import]

4800 or 9600 shouldn't make a difference. The type/brand of trunking system/radio does.

I'd love to hear if it actually works. I've had people tell me they've found ways around the Kenwood setup, but when you ask them for details, they never provide any.

And I love the way Kenwood did this. I had a Motorola SmartNet trunked system before this one. At some point my predecessor let one of the local Motorola shops program up some mobiles for us. We gave them the codeplug and said "use these ID numbers and give us the serial numbers you assigned them to". Never happened. When I was working on rebanding the system, we found a whole bunch of radios that all had the exact same ID. Made it a pain to manage the system, especially if a radio was lost/stolen and we had to shut it down. All of a sudden having 20 or so radios stop functioning made it clear the Motorola shop had screwed us.

Kenwood allows you to lock the system down to require both radio ID and ESN be in the system. I've gone as far as to lock it down that the ESN and Radio ID must match what is in the system. In the case of someone trying to clone a radio (I have them all password protected), it still won't let them in. I've got 100% control over the subscribers and that makes my life easier.

That is terrible what the shop did. I worked for a relatively small shop myself and trust is a must. So, yes it is a 4 Site UHF NEXEDGE96 trunked system. Type C. Fixed control channel frequencies for each site.

 

[mmckenna]

That is terrible what the shop did. I worked for a relatively small shop myself and trust is a must. So, yes it is a 4 Site UHF NEXEDGE96 trunked system. Type C. Fixed control channel frequencies for each site.

Yeah, one of my first introductions to Motorola was to get hosed by the local MRSS. And they've never done anything to regain my trust.

So, yeah, if it's a NexEdge system, the Kenwood radio won't work. Not sure how the Icom's handle Type C trunking and if there is a way to get them to ignore the bit that shows it's a trunking system.

That seems to be the $64,000 question.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

I can tell you with 100% certainty the Icoms ignore the trunking bit in conventional mode.

I use the following to monitor NDXN UHF Type C 4800 systems:

Transceiver:
IC-F4161DT (Scans Conventionally, have to lock out control channel from the scan list)

Receivers:
IC-R30 (Scans Conventionally, have to lock out control channel from the scan list)
SDS100 (not sure if it trunks it, or just scans like the Icoms)

I believe the 4161 is VN only. When I managed the system, i could also put in the scrambler code into the R30 and 4161 and monitor those comms as well.

 

[KevinC]

I believe the 4161 is VN only. When I managed the system, i could also put in the scrambler code into the R30 and 4161 and monitor those comms as well.

Shhh.....

 

[pro106import]

I can tell you with 100% certainty the Icoms ignore the trunking bit in conventional mode.

I use the following to monitor NDXN UHF Type C 4800 systems:

Transceiver:
IC-F4161DT (Scans Conventionally, have to lock out control channel from the scan list)

Receivers:
IC-R30 (Scans Conventionally, have to lock out control channel from the scan list)
SDS100 (not sure if it trunks it, or just scans like the Icoms)

I believe the 4161 is VN only. When I managed the system, i could also put in the scrambler code into the R30 and 4161 and monitor those comms as well.

Great to know @Echo4Thirty . My only hope is that it is the same for Narrow band 12.5 khz, 9600 systems. @mmckenna states that the baud rate shouldn't matter, which makes me feel more confident. I'll be getting one of the newer Icoms with the narrow type C option soon.

 

[mmckenna]

I can tell you with 100% certainty the Icoms ignore the trunking bit in conventional mode.

OK, thanks, good to know.

Now if Icom would just produce an 800MHz NXDN radio, I'd give them a try on my system.

 

[tunnelmot]

I monitor an NXDN 4800 system on an Icom 4400 and its works well. Still trying to get my selective talkgroup rx ironed out, but I can say it definitely works, and I'm easily following traffic. Experimenting with a local 9600 system, but as seeing as this is the latest 4800/9600 capable Icom, I don't see why it shouldn't. The alias function is pretty darn cool too.

 

[pro106import]

OK I finally have an update to possibly save someone the trouble of trying this. Confirmed, it doesn't work with Icoms either. Same as the Kenwoods for multi site Type C trunked systems. The audio does not unmute. The Unit ID's and Talkgroups both show up on the display, and the shows RSSI ect..., but the audio will not unmute. Oh well, have to depend on the scanner only. I used a newer Icom LMR with updated firmware.
Bob

 

[tunnelmot]

Thanks for the update pro106.

I indeed monitor a 4800 sys and have not confirmed rx on a 9600 sys so this is good data. I personally ASSUMED it would work, but seems we haven't actually confirmed it.

So as of the posts on this thread, it is confirmed that 4800 systems can be monitored with Icoms, 9600...not so much.