iDEN
- Thread starter shell6
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ajpritch
Member
There is nothing that will decode IDEN.
n1das
Member
FALSE.
iDEN phones decode iDEN in order to function. NEXTEL phones uses iDEN on an iDEN network.
I've seen older iDEN mobiles made by Motorola, dating back to the early NEXTEL days. Equipment for monitoring iDEN DOES exist as test equipment for testing, servicing and maintaining iDEN radios and the iDEN netwok.
Are you sure it was iDEN you saw in use? The older NEXTEL phones were bricks compared to what they are now, a lot of them may still be in use.
Regarding an off the shelf scanner as a consumer product capable of monitoring iDEN, none exists that I'm aware of.
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n1das
Member
May be possible. You'd need to tap the discriminator circuit to get the raw data waveform.
One thing about an iDEN signal is that it occupies more bandwidth than a normal scanner IF system is designed to handle. You may not be able to capture the entire signal in normal "narrow" FM mode. You may need a scanner with "wide" FM (WFM) capability, like for listening to FM broadcast and NTSC TV audio.
Good luck.
n1das
Member
NEXTEL phones ARE iDEN-spec 2-ways. (not aware of any others) They aren't phones specifically in the traditional sense that a cell phone is. It's sort of "...and oh BTW, you can also make phone calls with it if you want to." NEXTEL evolved from 800MHz SMRS and has been a push to talk (PTT) service from day one. The ability to use it as a phone was and still is secondary to the PTT capability. IIRC, NEXTEL phones operate under Part 90 while cell phones operate under Part 22 of FCC rules & regs.
I dunno but I suspect it's the same hardware but on their own iDEN network instead of NEXTEL. OTOH, they might just simply be using NEXTEL phones on the local NEXTEL network instead.
shaft
Member
Do a search, this was discussed before. There is a company that provides iDEN radio services to airports and such.
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N_Jay
Guest
Arinc
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N_Jay
Guest
I don't think a descriminator is going to give youy a usable outbut from MIRS/iDEN M16QAM
https://idenonline.motorola.com/ideveloper/pdf/techover.pdf
I concur. iDEN has been discussed before, on this same subject in fact, so you can find more infor by searching for just "iden".
Yep, even with the Astro radios there is no "discriminator". They use what is called an Abacus chip to digitize the IF. From there it's sent on to be decoded via lines that use current loops to carry the digital logic instead of regular gates due to the high speeds that would cause noise. That's why you can't "tap" an Astro radio in the conventional sense. There's nothing to electrically grab on to.
It's not as simple as tapping a chip and decoding.
It's not as simple as tapping a chip and decoding.
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N_Jay
Guest
I think the "Abacus" chip and "Zero IF" goes back to the analog Sabers.
It may but I was thinking that they still used a conventional discriminator type circuit. I recently look at a way to make a crude P25 repeater and I about pulled my hair out trying to find a way to go from the digital receiver to the digital transmitter without double vocoding the audio. The only spot I could find in the Astros that looked promising were the lines leading to and from the encryption module but that didn't pan out. Even with the module installed and the lines tapped around it and swapped from a receiver to transmitter it failed. It made a horrible noise too when the data line was lifted from the module.
I just simply wanted some way to get a P25 packet off the air and turn around and retransmit it using the error correction afforded by the radio's processing. I guess it's too simple of a concept for just a modification and would require modded firmware.
I ended up doing the flat audio out on a maxtrac to flat audio in setup which works surprisingly well and even passes D-Star of course.
... I'm done with my tangent.
I just simply wanted some way to get a P25 packet off the air and turn around and retransmit it using the error correction afforded by the radio's processing. I guess it's too simple of a concept for just a modification and would require modded firmware.
I ended up doing the flat audio out on a maxtrac to flat audio in setup which works surprisingly well and even passes D-Star of course.
... I'm done with my tangent.
James_Bond_007
Member
I don't know if this is possible but what about putting an IDEN mobile or handset into TEST MODE like we used to do on the old AMPS phones? or getting an old IDEN two way and hooking it into some for of a computer program and using the mobile only as a receiver/decoder and let a pc control the trunking functions?
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N_Jay
Guest
It would be very difficult. Phone conversations (i believe) are encrypted by part of the A-Key.
Group calls may be possible if you really understood enough about the internals to trick the unit into believing it is part of the group, AND that group has members in the cell and sector you are in.
Old or new is irrelevant except that some earlier units had more access to the internal circuitry.
James_Bond_007
Member
well me personally the phone stuff doesn't interest me. it would be just the PTT/Direct Connect and Group Call stuff.
guess this is what the original poster was looking for also. the way i figure, if they can hack Conditional Access Modules and VCII stuff then for these same people direct connect and group calls should be a piece of cake.
guess this is what the original poster was looking for also. the way i figure, if they can hack Conditional Access Modules and VCII stuff then for these same people direct connect and group calls should be a piece of cake.
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N_Jay
Guest
I believe it is more difficult.
CAM and VCII hacking usually exploits well known vulnerabilities.
I have not heard of any known ones with iDEN.
If the unit is not registered you don't get signal at that cell and sector.
If you copy a registration the system will detect it,and you can't take the A-Key.
If you get it to just monitor you still need a registered unit in your cell and sector.
James_Bond_007
Member
well thats expected. that is the way it was with the AMPS Test Mode Hack. once they switched cells you lost them. i'd assume it's also more pronounced with the low power digital nature of iden. definately not a project for the novice or casual listener.
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